Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 2345678 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 134
  1. #61

    • Junior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    63

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Why don't they just wait a few years. By then they could have self driving buses and then it will be just like PRT but on the street.

    The only issue I see with the buses is that they use gas instead of electricity and are staffed.

  2. #62

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    302

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Due to legal issue I don't think you'll ever see a transportation system that isn't staffed. To many things that could go wrong and create lawsuits. Adding any kind of system other than the bus would cost ridiculous amounts of money. Vehicles, and all that track of one type or another to lay for which ever system you time "might" work. On top of that it has to covers miles and miles of land and have a very large number of vehicles to cover the volume.

    No, I think the next step will be more buses with better fuel alternatives. Maybe a quick load unit for the now very popular buggies more and more people seem to need. The tracks are already laid, and if the need is there they make a call and another bus is rolled out and on the way.

    I agree a board at the stops showing the buses, routes, and times would be a great idea. Not only would it be another "neat" Disney addition, it would be tool that goes a long way at keeping the visitors informed where and whens of their bus. Less anxiety, more anticipation.

  3. #63

    •   
    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,642

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Okay, just so you know, Disney is spending more than half a billion dollars a year on the bus system it currently has... And the roads are becoming too crowded. Many roads in the district are approaching capacity and a couple are already over capacity. More buses are not the answer. Yes, a new system has an absolutely insane cost, most likely of about two billion dollars. However, a new system would theoretically be able to pay itself off in 10 years, just because it would be automated. And to someone who said that Disney would never do an automated system, well, plans are already announced to automate the monorails. (Though to still have a monitoring CM).
    -Bill

  4. #64

    •   
    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,642

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    Oh, so you are talking about a true PRT system like at London Heathrow then? That would allow non-stop transportation from any 2 points in the resort. Interesting. I wonder if it is high enough capacity though?

    Similar, but Heathrow's system doesn't do continuous loading to my knowledge, nor is it fast enough. The beauty of a continuous loading PRT is that it has all the benefits of a PeopleMover without the limitation of a pre-set destination. Disney would also require the cabins to be a tad smaller to accommodate strollers and wheelchairs easily. Wheelchairs and ECV loading are actually one of the biggest problems with Disney buses right now.
    -Bill

  5. #65

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    39

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Maybe you could have a separate, stationary loading area for strollers and wheelchairs that are separate from the continuous loading areas so there isn't a back up at the stations. That seems logical to me. A system like this not only makes it possible to have non-stop transportation to different resort locations, it frees up space on the already overcrowded roadways and provides an additional incentive to stay at a onsite hotel (why pay extra to stay onsite if you are going to have to wait for a bus anyways?). Sure it's expensive, but it is a great investment in the long run. Imagine if the Disney executives didn't build the monorail in 1971 and decided to just use buses. Buses would have been cheaper, but I'm sure they are glad that they have the monorail today.

  6. #66

    • former CM
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    S. Cal. via Milw. & Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,212

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Regarding the adjective "horrendous" in the title,
    I'd save that for DCA's "Superstar Limo."


    But for some of us who grew up in large Midwestern cities
    associate buses with inexpensive urban transportation.
    Some who take buses do so because they can't afford cars.
    It's not the first thing that comes to mind when I think "Vacation Kingdom of the World."

    I now associate monorails more with nostalgia than the future, but I prefer them to buses.

    I wish part of the MyMagic+ money had gone toward ten thousand bikes, bike paths & bridges, and drop-off areas at the resorts and parks. And I wish three of the moderate resorts would each be "plussed" with a small train to take guests to the nearest theme park.

    And while I'm being absurdly unrealistic, I wish WDW transportation lead to at least four newish, and totally original E-ticket attractions and some newer, well-themed areas at the different parks.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 02-06-2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #67

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    39

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Regarding the adjective "horrendous" in the title,
    I'd save that for DCA's "Superstar Limo."


    But for some of us who grew up in large Midwestern cities
    associate buses with inexpensive urban transportation.
    Some who take buses do so because they can't afford cars.
    It's not the first thing that comes to mind when I think "Vacation Kingdom of the World."

    I now associate monorails more with nostalgia than the future, but I prefer them to buses.

    I wish part of the MyMagic+ money had gone toward ten thousand bikes, bike paths & bridges, and drop-off areas at the resorts and parks. And I wish three of the moderate resorts would each be "plussed" with a small train to take guests to the nearest theme park.

    And while I'm being absurdly unrealistic, I wish WDW transportation lead to at least four newish, and totally original E-ticket attractions and some newer, well-themed areas at the different parks.
    I guess "horrendous" is a little bit harsh.

  8. #68

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    39

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    After watching Disney spend a BILLION dollars on their NextGen program (which I am still not in favor of), it makes me sad that thae large amount of money wasn't put into a nice transportation system like the one we have been discussing (or for some new rides for that matter). You could build a lot of PRT or monorail for a billion dollars. Just an FYI, a billion dollars would cover the approximate cost of building 10 miles of monorail track! That would be enough to almost double the 14.7 miles of track already in place! Imagine how nice that would be!

  9. #69

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    39

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Look what I just found. The pods at Heathrow (from my earlier video) only cost $10-15 million per mile. The billion dollar NextGen budget could have been used to build 66 miles of PRT track! That is enough to cover the whole park! Well at least we will get RFID wristbands...

    PRT Construction Cost



    Most PRT proponents give low cost as one of the main advantages of PRT. PRT is dramatically cheaper to build than other forms of transit. The reasons for this are several:

    • Elevated guideway reduces surface preparation costs
    • Elevated guideway allows area underneath to be used for other things
    • Small guideway and vehicle cross section minimises conflicts with other real-estate
    • Relatively low speeds reduces cornering speeds and allows greater installation flexibility
    • Lightweight vehicle allows lightweight guideway, reducing guideway expense
    • Lightweight guideway reduces installation costs
    • Low cost, lightweight guideway can be mass produced in a central location, increasing economies of scale

    Some people have estimated PRT guideway at less than $1M/mile to install. Most people think this is too low these days, as little or no real engineering has been done. Here are some better substantiated numbers. For the PRT systems, these are complete system costs: right-of-way acquisition and preparation, guideway installation, vehicles, etc. A few non-PRT systems are included for comparison. For the rail systems, costs are construction and right-of-way costs. No vehicles or operating costs included.
    Project Vendor Year Cost 2007 cost Reference
    Cincinatti Skyloop Taxi2000 2001 $2.9million/mile $6.8M/mile [1][2]
    Heathrow West Carpark ULTra 2009 3-5million/km $9.5-15.8M/mile [3]
    Vectus Vectus 2008 11B Won/km $18M/Mile [4]
    Skyweb Express Taxi2000 2009 $15-$25M/Mile $20M/Mile
    Morgantown Boeing 1978 $14.4million/mile $45.7M/mile [5]
    Hiawatha 2006 $72.4million/mile $74.6M/mile [6]
    Airport Extension BART 2003 $178million/mile $200.5M/mile [7]


  10. #70

    • former CM
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    S. Cal. via Milw. & Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,212

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    I guess "horrendous" is a little bit harsh.
    Then again, you got my attention.
    And the busses are on the cons side of pros & cons list of traveling to WDW.

  11. #71

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    302

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    Look what I just found. The pods at Heathrow (from my earlier video) only cost $10-15 million per mile. The billion dollar NextGen budget could have been used to build 66 miles of PRT track! That is enough to cover the whole park! Well at least we will get RFID wristbands...

    PRT Construction Cost



    Most PRT proponents give low cost as one of the main advantages of PRT. PRT is dramatically cheaper to build than other forms of transit. The reasons for this are several:

    • Elevated guideway reduces surface preparation costs
    • Elevated guideway allows area underneath to be used for other things
    • Small guideway and vehicle cross section minimises conflicts with other real-estate
    • Relatively low speeds reduces cornering speeds and allows greater installation flexibility
    • Lightweight vehicle allows lightweight guideway, reducing guideway expense
    • Lightweight guideway reduces installation costs
    • Low cost, lightweight guideway can be mass produced in a central location, increasing economies of scale

    Some people have estimated PRT guideway at less than $1M/mile to install. Most people think this is too low these days, as little or no real engineering has been done. Here are some better substantiated numbers. For the PRT systems, these are complete system costs: right-of-way acquisition and preparation, guideway installation, vehicles, etc. A few non-PRT systems are included for comparison. For the rail systems, costs are construction and right-of-way costs. No vehicles or operating costs included.
    Project Vendor Year Cost 2007 cost Reference
    Cincinatti Skyloop Taxi2000 2001 $2.9million/mile $6.8M/mile [1][2]
    Heathrow West Carpark ULTra 2009 3-5million/km $9.5-15.8M/mile [3]
    Vectus Vectus 2008 11B Won/km $18M/Mile [4]
    Skyweb Express Taxi2000 2009 $15-$25M/Mile $20M/Mile
    Morgantown Boeing 1978 $14.4million/mile $45.7M/mile [5]
    Hiawatha 2006 $72.4million/mile $74.6M/mile [6]
    Airport Extension BART 2003 $178million/mile $200.5M/mile [7]

    Your living in a pipe dream, they will NEVER spend this kind of money on a new system. They would put the money into some thing they will get a return on, rides, restaurants, and resort hotels.

    They already have a system in place that works well and is easy to maintain.

  12. #72

    •   
    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,642

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Umm, the current system does NOT work well, and I can guarantee you that it is NOT easy to maintain.

    However, having said that, I agree with you that money would probably go to something that shows a faster ROI.

    Get ready for more DVC.
    -Bill

  13. #73

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    toronto
    Posts
    1,869

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    well I would see it more as simple persay then easy, its a process done in cities and towns around the world. regarding PRT, i think its a wonderful novel concept however its not a feasible solution as a be all end all final answer. in small scale situations it would work fabulously in my opinion and in practice, however in the grand scheme of things you can only scale it up so far. that is why in my perfect world I would use a combination of various systems which I think would be the ideal situation, guests on the whole like having choices the more they have the better. over long distances I would borrow from a previous idea and expand the monorail system, making Epcot the new hub and adding a wilderness lodge station. the new monorail expansion would contain two spurs, one following the current line to Epcot servicing beach/yacht club, swan/dolphin, MGM, Blizzard Beach, Coronado Springs Animal Kingdom, and the Animal Kingdom lodge. the second spur would head to the west side of the resort and service Caribbean beach, Pop Century/Art of Animation, Typhoon Lagoon, and Downtown Disney. Looking at the smaller scale, although again I do like the idea of PRT I think that water travel could create, maybe not an equally efficient system, but a more enjoyable overall experience for the guest. I would expand the fleet in the downtown disney area and provide access to Saratoga Springs and Old Key west resorts. I would then also bring something along the lines of the tom sawyer rafts to the wilderness campground in addition to the golf carts as opposed to the internal bus system. I think that would really add to the experience of that area. speaking of adding to the experience, i would create a jungle boat type transportation connecting the Animal Kingdom Lodge to the park bearing the same name. I think all deluxe resorts should contain various unique forms of transportation like that. the rest of the situations could be dealt with with busses. i think although it would be nice to do away with busses all together its not a feasible idea, especially when it comes to peak times. with this system however the number of busses on the road would be drastically reduced and disney could send busses less frequently to the majority of resorts. this would reduce the number of busses on the roads and hopefully cause less guests to use their cars while staying on property, clearing up traffic on the roads drastically and not requiring any new infrastructure in that area of the park. besides rolling out electric or eco friendly busses as the new fleet is brought in thats all i would do to the transportation system. any thoughts?

  14. #74

    •   
    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,642

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    well I would see it more as simple persay then easy, its a process done in cities and towns around the world. regarding PRT, i think its a wonderful novel concept however its not a feasible solution as a be all end all final answer. in small scale situations it would work fabulously in my opinion and in practice, however in the grand scheme of things you can only scale it up so far. that is why in my perfect world I would use a combination of various systems which I think would be the ideal situation, guests on the whole like having choices the more they have the better. over long distances I would borrow from a previous idea and expand the monorail system, making Epcot the new hub and adding a wilderness lodge station. the new monorail expansion would contain two spurs, one following the current line to Epcot servicing beach/yacht club, swan/dolphin, MGM, Blizzard Beach, Coronado Springs Animal Kingdom, and the Animal Kingdom lodge. the second spur would head to the west side of the resort and service Caribbean beach, Pop Century/Art of Animation, Typhoon Lagoon, and Downtown Disney. Looking at the smaller scale, although again I do like the idea of PRT I think that water travel could create, maybe not an equally efficient system, but a more enjoyable overall experience for the guest. I would expand the fleet in the downtown disney area and provide access to Saratoga Springs and Old Key west resorts. I would then also bring something along the lines of the tom sawyer rafts to the wilderness campground in addition to the golf carts as opposed to the internal bus system. I think that would really add to the experience of that area. speaking of adding to the experience, i would create a jungle boat type transportation connecting the Animal Kingdom Lodge to the park bearing the same name. I think all deluxe resorts should contain various unique forms of transportation like that. the rest of the situations could be dealt with with busses. i think although it would be nice to do away with busses all together its not a feasible idea, especially when it comes to peak times. with this system however the number of busses on the road would be drastically reduced and disney could send busses less frequently to the majority of resorts. this would reduce the number of busses on the roads and hopefully cause less guests to use their cars while staying on property, clearing up traffic on the roads drastically and not requiring any new infrastructure in that area of the park. besides rolling out electric or eco friendly busses as the new fleet is brought in thats all i would do to the transportation system. any thoughts?
    My thoughts? You miss the entire point of PRT completely. PRT works because it IS a end all final answer. It goes direct to your destination. No stops, no changing vehicles, and essentially can be scaled to accommodate an unlimited capacity.

    Now, I don't see the harm in having water transportation as well as PRT, but PRT has to connect everything to be effective.

    And buses less frequently to resorts? Are you mad? 20 minutes to wait for a bus is already too long, and you want to send them even less frequently? No one wants to wait that long, or should have to wait that long.
    -Bill

  15. #75

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    302

    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    My thoughts? You miss the entire point of PRT completely. PRT works because it IS a end all final answer. It goes direct to your destination. No stops, no changing vehicles, and essentially can be scaled to accommodate an unlimited capacity.

    Now, I don't see the harm in having water transportation as well as PRT, but PRT has to connect everything to be effective.

    And buses less frequently to resorts? Are you mad? 20 minutes to wait for a bus is already too long, and you want to send them even less frequently? No one wants to wait that long, or should have to wait that long.
    Well if your PRT system worked so well you should be able to cut back on buses. After all your talking of replacing them with the system right?

    Buses are easy to maintain, much like your car. Wash them now and then, change the oil regularly and keep up with replacing worn parts. Its very easy to set up a schedule system to change out parts BEFORE they fail when you have such a large sampling to draw the data from on "when" they break. As mentioned above, cities, and towns do it all the time. Even some of the bigger Universities have there own fleets and have no trouble maintaining them.

    As I've said before, I've never had any trouble with the buses, and in my book that means it works. I think Disney could go a long way of clearing this bad reputaion some people give the bus system with a few tweaks.

    1, switch to a more eco-friendly fuel system. I do have to compliment Disney on their upkeep of these buses as I have not seen many spew that thick black diesel smoke a poorly tuned engine will. Switching to a hybrid, or a LP gas system would go a long way in the "publicity" department, making people happy, which goes a long way in having people be a bit more forgiving of little problems.

    2, The bus location information being made available to the public. I'm sure the buses are track with GPS. Either through phone apps, or a monitor at the bus stops displaying "count down clocks" for all the buses coming to that station. Knowing "when" the bus your waiting for is going to be there relieves all the anxiety and again relieve the tension of "not knowing".

    A few million dollars would add these two fixes and could make the bus fleet shine again.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 2345678 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-07-2006, 07:39 AM
  2. Where in the (Disney) World?
    By Club 33 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 876
    Last Post: 02-14-2006, 09:16 PM
  3. ***un-official Disney [World] Monorail Thread***
    By monorail_rider in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 05-11-2005, 02:35 PM
  4. No 'I'm going to Disney World' ads for the 2005 Super Bowl
    By Darkbeer in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-03-2005, 10:29 AM
  5. disney world map from the 70s
    By migitmouse88 in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-01-2005, 01:52 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •