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  1. #106

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    For one park? How will we ensure the PRT will return on-time to meet the quota? Or maybe the vehicle will be dispatched to another location. There has to be a significant number of "out of service" PRTs to do its job of returning guests home. Certainly, that will cause complaints of bad service at the resort locations for guests who are ready to head out to Downtown Disney or other locations.

    The loading platform is rather complicated. I don't see how it is convenient. A better approach is the guests line up to go to their preferred destination to reduce the hassle of making the request and allocating the demand. To further speed things up, larger PRTs are utilized (van or bus sized).

    This is certainly a case where we let our imaginations run wild.
    All transportation systems require having extra vehicles to accomodate peak loads. The current bus system is no different. How do resort guests feel now when they have to wait 15 minutes for a bus that may not be direct?

    PRT systems are computer controlled and use special algorithms to minimize the time that a pod is out of service. With the large amount of vehicles required, the wait time will be minimal, especially since the system will run at below capacity for the majority of the day.

    The loading station is no different than the peoplemover except for the fact that it is scaled up considerably. Don't know why that is complicated.

  2. #107

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    All transportation systems require having extra vehicles to accomodate peak loads. The current bus system is no different. How do resort guests feel now when they have to wait 15 minutes for a bus that may not be direct?

    PRT systems are computer controlled and use special algorithms to minimize the time that a pod is out of service. With the large amount of vehicles required, the wait time will be minimal, especially since the system will run at below capacity for the majority of the day.

    The loading station is no different than the peoplemover except for the fact that it is scaled up considerably. Don't know why that is complicated.
    The biggest point of the PRT system would be that it's more of an attraction than bus is. Just like the monorail or boats are. When I am at WdW I love using the boats/Monorails since those aren't things I do everyday. the bus is just Blah boring I have those at home. People actually might be a bit happier waiting for something that isn't on scale with a boring old bus. As far as the logistics are concerned it would be just like an attraction where they would figure out how many are needed and where as well as when.

  3. #108

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yes, I have seen those numbers. My numbers are rounded that I have shown you here. I've rounded them all up from the actual data to be sure that it can handle additional capacity. You're not going to see those numbers though, because I'm not sure how much of that data has been publicly released...

    Having said that, I think it is very interesting that you would even attempt to attack my numbers... Not many people ever try to question me. You have some guts.
    No, I have seen the numbers and what you say is wrong.

    OK, so who's right now?

    It's very easy to contradict your number assumptions because unless you post documents with the data all spelled out and verified that all it is IS speculation.

    Nobody is picking on Bill. Yes he presented an nice pile of numbers that when put together paint a pretty picture, it doesn't make right, nor any more feasible than it was before.

    Also, I don't think anyone said anything about not being able to "dream" like Walt did. The idea of a PRT system IS a great dream, but that is all it will be. It just isn't cost effective to build and maintain it. If it was, you would see a lot more of them around than you do now. While I'm sure it isn't cheap to run the bus system ( I doubt it's $500,000,000 ) it is far cheaper that setting up and running a PRT system, or they would have done it.

    Yes I agree that it would be "cool" to have it, but it won't happen any time soon. Much like flying cars, and vacation holidays on Mars they are dreams.

  4. #109

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    I just saw a video on jaylenosgarage.com/ that showed a company that retrofits buses with electric motors.

    The cost of one of their retrofitted buses (buying it 'new', not sending in a bus to be modified) is $500,000. While that's not cheap, it could be a good idea for them to contract with a company that can retrofit their buses into electric vehicles a few at a time. That would also help them slowly downsize their bus maintenance shop, while slowly growing a storage/charging solution for the electric ones.

    Direct link here.... Electric Bus Conversion | Video | Jay Lenos Garage | NBC

    I'd imagine it would be possible to use electric engines in the parking trams as well, since there is a large amount of time in the middle of the day where many of them would be able to recharge before the rush of the parks closing.
    Last edited by SLUSHIE; 02-12-2013 at 12:33 AM.

  5. #110

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    On the return trip it would be far worse. You could have 10,000 PRV's coming over a 3 hours period or even shorter, assuming people leave between something like fireworks and closing. So you would need a much bigger space for boarding.
    My conservative anaysis, came up with 3,333 PRV's per hour at max times.

    While it appears that a lot of people drive to the parks, that is true. But where they come from is mostly off property. Because Orlando is a big tourist and business area it has about 100,000 hotels rooms in addition to WDW's 30,000. Not that the 100,000 will all be coming to WDW parks, but some are and they mostly come in cars filling those parking areas. There are also 1,000s of locals, some APHs that also drive to the parks. Would they use the PTR? A small part of them would when they hop, or decide using the PTR is fun so they park at one location and ride to another like the TTC to Epcot.

    Of course there are hotel guests that have cars and some that don't are leaveing WDW for odd places like Seaworld and the shore.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    For one park? How will we ensure the PRT will return on-time to meet the quota? Or maybe the vehicle will be dispatched to another location.

    The loading platform is rather complicated. I don't see how it is convenient. A better approach is the guests line up to go to their preferred destination to reduce the hassle of making the request and allocating the demand.
    At WDW they do use GPS to know where the buses are. They also know the guest counts and flow patterns. So dispatching extra buses is not a big deal. They know this stuff.

    The buses do have a big flexible system in place for peak times. They have contract for an outside vendor to fill the bus demand. Not as simple as PRT could be done. It's a likely reason why one wouldn't replace the other, just supplement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    This PRT system would be an example of "plussing". Plussing takes some aspect of the guest experience and makes it better. Yes, it costs money, but the point is...it makes Disney World better. That is all that Walt wanted...to make his parks as best as the could be. Disney spends billions of dollars to plus attractions, parks, and accommodations, why isn't their transportation system worthy of some plussing?
    The buses get plussed. Replaced buses, new paint jobs, new on board information.

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    The loading station is no different than the peoplemover except for the fact that it is scaled up considerably. Don't know why that is complicated.
    The loading stations could work with that design, but at the parks need to be scaled way up, like Carousel of Progress sized or bigger.

    Think of it this way. PM size, PM handles 1/30 of the attraction load, since MK has guests laoding many other attractions at the same time. There are also people walking and in restaurants, so lets make PM carrying 1/45 of the guests flow.

    Then at the end of the day or begin in the versatile MK, guest arrive/depart by bus, two monorail, and two boat systems. We'll say each is taking 1/5 of the guest flow.

    So for a PM loading system it would need to be 9 times larger. 45 times the guests of the PM divided by the 6 systems of arrival departure with PM included.

    The PM itself has an even in out flow. Because everyone who gets on is getting off minutes later and being replaced. This is why the entrance and exit ramps come up to the middle of the load unload zone.

    With a park and resort, arrival/departure system, using the same ramps style would have to be adapted to multiple ramps, like spokes upto and down from the loading platform. The guest need to disribute along the loading platform to simutaneously load and unload.

  6. #111

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUSHIE View Post
    I just saw a video on jaylenosgarage.com/ that showed a company that retrofits buses with electric motors.

    The cost of one of their retrofitted buses (buying it 'new', not sending in a bus to be modified) is $500,000. While that's not cheap, it could be a good idea for them to contract with a company that can retrofit their buses into electric vehicles a few at a time. That would also help them slowly downsize their bus maintenance shop, while slowly growing a storage/charging solution for the electric ones.

    Direct link here.... Electric Bus Conversion | Video | Jay Lenos Garage | NBC
    While electirc systems of all types sound like the future. Remember electricity is not free and not produced cleanly. It's not the simple answer.

  7. #112

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    While adding non-bus transport options might not make me choose WDW as a destination if i didn't already want to go there, it ABSOLUTELY makes me choose a more expensive resort if I can swing the cost.

  8. #113

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    While adding non-bus transport options might not make me choose WDW as a destination if i didn't already want to go there, it ABSOLUTELY makes me choose a more expensive resort if I can swing the cost.
    Is that currently true? You pick any delux resort except AKL because they have boats or Monorails to get to a park or two?

  9. #114

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    While adding non-bus transport options might not make me choose WDW as a destination if i didn't already want to go there, it ABSOLUTELY makes me choose a more expensive resort if I can swing the cost.
    EXACTLY! Nobody says "I want to stay at a Disney hotel for its bus service" People stay at the Contemporary because of the monorail. If hotels had Peoplemover stations, there would be a huge incentive to stay on-site. Disney could offer something truly unique that no other off-site hotel could remotely compete with.

  10. #115

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    Is that currently true? You pick any delux resort except AKL because they have boats or Monorails to get to a park or two?
    I do. I stay at the contemporary for two reasons. The Magic Kingdom out the window and the monorail downstairs. I would consider staying at the Boardwalk for the boats to EPCOT and Hollywood Studios, but that's about it. It means I have to save up longer and can't go as often but I'd just as soon stay off property and drive as stay at a Disney resort that only has bus transportation.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #116

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    Is that currently true? You pick any delux resort except AKL because they have boats or Monorails to get to a park or two?
    Yep. AKL is the only Deluxe I really have no desire to stay at.

  12. #117

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Disney! Do you here this! People don't want to stay at some of your hotels because they lack a nice transportation system! More filled hotel rooms = more money! A peoplemover expands transportation, supports Walt's idea of better transportation systems, adds magic and novelty to the park experience, relieves roadway congestion, and gets more people to stay on site. Despite the cost, this is a win, win, win, win situation!

  13. #118

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    Disney! Do you here this! People don't want to stay at some of your hotels because they lack a nice transportation system! More filled hotel rooms = more money! A peoplemover expands transportation, supports Walt's idea of better transportation systems, adds magic and novelty to the park experience, relieves roadway congestion, and gets more people to stay on site. Despite the cost, this is a win, win, win, win situation!

    LOL!!! give it up already! It isn't going to happen.

  14. #119

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    Re: Peoplemover as a viable alternative to horrendous Disney World Bus Service???

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    Disney! Do you here this! People don't want to stay at some of your hotels because they lack a nice transportation system! More filled hotel rooms = more money! A peoplemover expands transportation, supports Walt's idea of better transportation systems, adds magic and novelty to the park experience, relieves roadway congestion, and gets more people to stay on site. Despite the cost, this is a win, win, win, win situation!
    ^hence one of the primary reasons they can charge that much more for deluxe resorts as opposed to the moderates and value. if moderates and value's start getting this special treatment its one less reason for people to spend money for the top tier, hence a big loose right there. add to that the billions of dollars spent on little to no immediate return and we have a not gonna happen situation.

  15. #120

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    . . . viable alternativeS to horrendous Disney World Bus Service

    Quote Originally Posted by wsiirola View Post
    EXACTLY! Nobody says "I want to stay at a Disney hotel for its bus service" People stay at the Contemporary because of the monorail. If hotels had Peoplemover stations, there would be a huge incentive to stay on-site. Disney could offer something truly unique that no other off-site hotel could remotely compete with.
    Three of the moderate resorts should be improved with small trains to their nearest park.
    1. From Coronado Springs to the AK.
    2. From Port Orleans to EPCOT.
    3. From the Caribbean Beach Resort to Disney's Hollywood Studios.

    And WDW should build an extensive system of bike paths & bridges to and from most resorts & parks with a convenient drop off system for bikes owned by the parks. And, Disney, you could CHARGE FOR THIS!

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