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  1. #31

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzapants View Post
    Epcot isn't dead. Come on now. Wonders of Life is dead. Imageworks and the 3D theater is stale. But there's more good than bad. The Seas is great! It still edutains, and it uses characters kids love in a setting that is completely acceptable. If anything, it's even more relevant now. TRON-ized Test Track is better than the last Test Track. The Land is still a great pavilion. I freakin love Mission:Space. Although I preferred Irons' Spaceship Earth, I still enjoy M's version. Epcot is wounded. It isn't dead.
    I agree with this whole heartedly. In some ways I understand the Nemo complaints, but I think they're disingenuous. Last time I was there (2009) The Seas with Nemo and Friends was one of the highlights of Future World for me; I think it has the perfect blending of science and education with beloved characters. Maybe it was better pre-Nemo, but I don't think Nemo ruins it by any means, and arguably makes it more relevant.

    The Land is still a great pavilion (although Circle of Life is really stale at this point) and I think Soarin' was a strong addition. Sure it would be better with footage from around the world instead of only California, but it's still a great attraction.

    Imagination sucks. I think we can all agree on that.

    Spaceship Earth is still good. yes the ending is lame, but I'd argue that 90% of the attraction is still great.

    I haven't had a chance to ride the new iteration of Test Track, but everything I've heard says it's a massive improvement.

    Horizons was a painful loss, but unfortunately was unavoidable. It was falling apart and built on top of a sink hole, there was really no way to save it. If you look at Mission: Space as it's own attraction rather than a replacement for Horizons I think it's a pretty great ride in-and-of-itself.

    The fact that Wonders of Life is just a Food & Wine Festival pavilion is really depressing and I wish Disney would do something with that space.

    Universe of Energy desperately needs some love, but it's still a good attraction.

    Bottom line is Future World went through some dark times, but I think it's starting to be revived. The most recent changes have been fairly positive ones, and I don't think it's worth giving up on the old girl yet. Will it ever be as good as we remember EPCOT '82 being? No, probably not, but it can still be great again. After all, isn't that kind of the point of Epcot? looking forward to a brighter future?

  2. #32

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    I can tell you that Imagination is being looked at again for a possible update. Imagineering has been poking around quite a bit lately and looking things over. Rumors of what the update may provide will probably not be welcomed to the die hard imagination fans. However they are just rumors at this point. And again nothing has been approved for the pavilion just speculation.

  3. #33

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusion0fLife View Post
    I agree with this whole heartedly. In some ways I understand the Nemo complaints, but I think they're disingenuous. Last time I was there (2009) The Seas with Nemo and Friends was one of the highlights of Future World for me; I think it has the perfect blending of science and education with beloved characters. Maybe it was better pre-Nemo, but I don't think Nemo ruins it by any means, and arguably makes it more relevant.

    The Land is still a great pavilion (although Circle of Life is really stale at this point) and I think Soarin' was a strong addition. Sure it would be better with footage from around the world instead of only California, but it's still a great attraction.

    Imagination sucks. I think we can all agree on that.

    Spaceship Earth is still good. yes the ending is lame, but I'd argue that 90% of the attraction is still great.

    I haven't had a chance to ride the new iteration of Test Track, but everything I've heard says it's a massive improvement.

    Horizons was a painful loss, but unfortunately was unavoidable. It was falling apart and built on top of a sink hole, there was really no way to save it. If you look at Mission: Space as it's own attraction rather than a replacement for Horizons I think it's a pretty great ride in-and-of-itself.

    The fact that Wonders of Life is just a Food & Wine Festival pavilion is really depressing and I wish Disney would do something with that space.

    Universe of Energy desperately needs some love, but it's still a good attraction.

    Bottom line is Future World went through some dark times, but I think it's starting to be revived. The most recent changes have been fairly positive ones, and I don't think it's worth giving up on the old girl yet. Will it ever be as good as we remember EPCOT '82 being? No, probably not, but it can still be great again. After all, isn't that kind of the point of Epcot? looking forward to a brighter future?
    Thanks. Nice to read an uplifting quote about Epcot.

  4. #34

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytom View Post
    Again, a great venting and summary from a hardcore fan about their displeasure of the current WDW experience. And, like me, you seem to be voting with your pocketbook which is exactly what we all need to do. I'm not saying boycott but actions and, more importantly, "inactions" speak louder than words. I will not renew my AP this year (me). I will not visit this year because stagnation doesn't equate to value or fun. I will not "settle" and be taken for granted.

    This isn't Disney bashing as much as it is an observation that the the marketplace is speaking for itself. Walt would understand, the marginal value isn't there anymore (at WDW) and people are revolting.

    For example, the dining plan all but destroyed the "vacation" aspect of the Vacation Kingdom. This is no longer an upscale, interesting and relaxing resort to visit. There is little pleasure anymore of simply coming in for the weekend to enjoy the surroundings and a nice meal - the dining plan has caused food to be bland, common and uninviting.

    Disney gets what it deserves until they come to their senses and so some soul searching or else conduct non-biased focus groups to understand why repeat visitors are dwindling and they're getting bashed like baby seals on boards like this.

    They could make money hand over fist by investing a little money in quality and "plussing" of the existing show - I would literally pay money to see the Piranah (sp.?) fish effect in the WDW Jungle Cruise. I would certainly pay money to see the holiday overlays at Bears, Small World and Mansion.

    I resent having to pay money for "interactive" games in lieu of expansive new lands or rides. Nor do I want to see reconfigured attraction lines that attempt to entertain me by repeating the same gag over and over again because they've overbooked the ride so must that wait times are now double what they used to be and they're trying to get my mind off the fact that the lines move at glacial pace (almost as slow as Disney's capital improvement plans).

    To the poster "aggiemullins", perhaps consider Tokyo Disney Resort - it's not nearly as expensive as you'd think it would be and they do Disney better than Disney currently does (or has done in the past 20 years). Quite frankly, it's a great cultural experience to see Japan and the parks are awesome - the Disney nostalgia just courses through the veins here.
    Oh, you so got that right!
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  5. #35

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by sbk1234 View Post
    The truth is, there was no guarantee that had Tony baxter remained they would do anything with Imagination at all. If anything is going to be done with it to rework it back to the masterpiece it was in the beginning, it will take a high-up exec with enough clout and desire to make it happen.
    As much as I'd LOVE to see the original again, I think the best we could have EVER hoped for would be a new ride in the spirit of the original, but never an actual clone.
    Yep, what he said.
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  6. #36

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by aggiemullins View Post
    There's so much wrong with WDW these days, Imagination and ultimately Epcot is only another drop in the proverbial Bucket of Stagnation that has enveloped the entire Florida property. It really is about money, profits and probably a good bit of out-of-touch ego and stupidity within TDO.

    While nice that TT got a full makeover, it was still a good, relevant and educational ride that only needed a little TLC to fix the broken things. Certainly not a complete gutting. Even Soarin could have used an update before TT. It's not like making a new Soarin movie (or a new 4D movie for the imagination theater) would break the bank.

    World of Energy is yet another example of missed opportunities. Big Oil is going through a second renaissance in our country, but fracking, high gas prices, and the BP incident has given them a serious image problem. If TDO had half a brain, they could get one or all the oil players to bankroll a complete World of Energy makeover or in the very least, update the movie into this century. It's not like Disney doesn't own a movie studio or anything...

    Our family for the first time in almost 10 years has decided to go elsewhere this year for vacation. When I see trash on the ground, peeling paint and things on rides that no longer work, my heart sinks. When I go to buy a souvenir, tickets or food and I realize how much more I'm paying for this dissapointment, I only feel anger. We prefer to remember WDW for what it was, not what its becoming. As sad as it is, even our local Six Flags has done more to earn our money the last few years. And they've been in bankruptcy.
    My next trip to Orlando is to see the new Universal attractions, I may even opt to stay at Universal. I live in Northern California, go to Disneyland 4 to 5 times a year, Walt Disney World, once every 4 to 5 years. Without the exciting changes at Universal, I wouldn't be going to Orlando at all later this year.
    Gullywhumper is back on the Rivers of America!

  7. #37

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    This is absoutely saddening news. I wish that Tony Baxter would have stayed on long enough to head the return of the original Journey Into Imagination. A return of the original JII isn't going to work without Tony Baxter's guidance, he and Steve Kirk were the masterminds behind the original Journey Into Imagination. I guess the next best thing would be a new version of JII that is in loving spirit of the original. I wanted a complete return of the original so badly, because I get so sad when I see posts on message boards and youtube comments saying that they never got to ride the original knowing that I got to ride the original. They have to suffer miserably to be stuck riding that current version of JII which is a monstrosity. DreamfinderFigment I feel so sorry for you, I wish that you had gotten the oppertunity to ride the original like I did and not watch it on some youtube video.

  8. #38

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    -

    As much as i adore and cherish the original JII Attraction, i know full well that the chances of the original *coming back * are fairly slim to non-exsistant.

    Personally, i would rather leave the memory of that stunning experience in a beautifully crafted attraction lie peacefully and blissfully in the past.

    I would instead enjoy seeing a new version of the attraction done in the same SPIRIT and TONE that the original is so beloved for. Keep the classic, endearing characters of Dreamfinder and Figment...but update the experience a bit to meld better with the constraints such a attraction today would need to fit.

    Yes...it is true though...*Imagination works the best when it is set free..* and i totally agree there. Sadly in today*s world, with the way TWDC likes to run things in the Parks ( WDW exspecially now...) i cannot see JII getting a full on treatment the way it should.

    Tony Baxter stepping into another role seems to give the impression all our hopes of seeing a fantastic re-design of the Pavillion is now not a possibility. But as anyone versed in Imagineering lore knows, A good idea never dies.
    Now just because someone who started an idea moves on, the idea does not nessesarily go away with them. Who is to say, or who knows for sure...but i would like to think Tony had a desire to try to *fix* the currant attraction if given the chance. Sadly it seems that was surpressed....and money in the purse that could have gone towards such a project was likely being diverted to more high-end, high-profile attractions being built and character-overlay refurbs. If the atmosphere within the Company was not so heavily political, i would like to think it could have happened sooner. I have faith that it WILL happen....but to what level of quality is the big question now on many people*s minds.

    I would like to think that in the art morgue somewhere on Flower St. there is a nice folder full of concept art for a new take on JII that would blow any fans head off. We have heard the talk...we know about it being in the works...it is just as others have said however, Disney just does not see the need to spend the big bucks to make it happen on a attraction that is now just a Guide Map blurb. It is outrageous considering the legacy of the previous version of the attraction to have to be reduced to the downsized version it is now.

    I would throughly enjoy seeing JII rise again to claim it*s former spot as the apex of imaginative and inspiring attractions at EPCOT. Many people came away from that experience completely inspired and creatively motivated ( raises hand ) in a real, life changing way. That seems a rather big achievement and proof if any proof was needed that the original attraction experience was beyond just being a *theme park ride* that provided a brief, frivolous distraction. No...it was so much more then that for many people...self included. It is a tribute to those involved who created the original, and in being inspired themselves passed on that inspiration to others.

    The currant attraction, and the 2nd version exspecially before it, do not.

    Tony was right on so many levels when he said on that faithful day that Imagination does not work.

  9. #39

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Figments Friend View Post
    -

    As much as i adore and cherish the original JII Attraction, i know full well that the chances of the original *coming back * are fairly slim to non-exsistant.

    Personally, i would rather leave the memory of that stunning experience in a beautifully crafted attraction lie peacefully and blissfully in the past.

    I would instead enjoy seeing a new version of the attraction done in the same SPIRIT and TONE that the original is so beloved for. Keep the classic, endearing characters of Dreamfinder and Figment...but update the experience a bit to meld better with the constraints such a attraction today would need to fit.

    Yes...it is true though...*Imagination works the best when it is set free..* and i totally agree there. Sadly in today*s world, with the way TWDC likes to run things in the Parks ( WDW exspecially now...) i cannot see JII getting a full on treatment the way it should.

    Tony Baxter stepping into another role seems to give the impression all our hopes of seeing a fantastic re-design of the Pavillion is now not a possibility. But as anyone versed in Imagineering lore knows, A good idea never dies.
    Now just because someone who started an idea moves on, the idea does not nessesarily go away with them. Who is to say, or who knows for sure...but i would like to think Tony had a desire to try to *fix* the currant attraction if given the chance. Sadly it seems that was surpressed....and money in the purse that could have gone towards such a project was likely being diverted to more high-end, high-profile attractions being built and character-overlay refurbs. If the atmosphere within the Company was not so heavily political, i would like to think it could have happened sooner. I have faith that it WILL happen....but to what level of quality is the big question now on many people*s minds.

    I would like to think that in the art morgue somewhere on Flower St. there is a nice folder full of concept art for a new take on JII that would blow any fans head off. We have heard the talk...we know about it being in the works...it is just as others have said however, Disney just does not see the need to spend the big bucks to make it happen on a attraction that is now just a Guide Map blurb. It is outrageous considering the legacy of the previous version of the attraction to have to be reduced to the downsized version it is now.

    I would throughly enjoy seeing JII rise again to claim it*s former spot as the apex of imaginative and inspiring attractions at EPCOT. Many people came away from that experience completely inspired and creatively motivated ( raises hand ) in a real, life changing way. That seems a rather big achievement and proof if any proof was needed that the original attraction experience was beyond just being a *theme park ride* that provided a brief, frivolous distraction. No...it was so much more then that for many people...self included. It is a tribute to those involved who created the original, and in being inspired themselves passed on that inspiration to others.

    The currant attraction, and the 2nd version exspecially before it, do not.

    Tony was right on so many levels when he said on that faithful day that Imagination does not work.
    Well as you said, if the original version rebuilt with new modern day animatronics,restored soundtrack,new track and light system can't be built then I'd Definately like to see a new attraction that has the same tone and theme then. Well all I can say is that I just hope Dreamfinder and Figment come back to Epcot Center. Long live Dreamfinder & Figment!

  10. #40

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamfinderFigment View Post
    Well as you said, if the original version rebuilt with new modern day animatronics,restored soundtrack,new track and light system can't be built then I'd Definately like to see a new attraction that has the same tone and theme then. Well all I can say is that I just hope Dreamfinder and Figment come back to Epcot Center. Long live Dreamfinder & Figment!
    Well said DreamfinderFigment, if we can't get the original Journey Into Imagination with all the newest modern ride technology, then something in loving spirit of the original would the be the next best thing.

    I would love to see the original come back that uses the same tones and effects that the Little Mermaid ride at the New Fantasyland uses, i'd go for that.

  11. #41

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by edward1978 View Post
    Well said DreamfinderFigment, if we can't get the original Journey Into Imagination with all the newest modern ride technology, then something in loving spirit of the original would the be the next best thing.

    I would love to see the original come back that uses the same tones and effects that the Little Mermaid ride at the New Fantasyland uses, i'd go for that.
    you mean exactly as I have been suggesting the entire time??

  12. #42

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    you mean exactly as I have been suggesting the entire time??
    Nope, I used to disagree with you because I wanted the original JII back so badly, but now that Tony Baxter has jumped ship, now we'll never get the original back, can't be done without his guidance. Now I will have to settle for what you have been wanting, something in loving spirit of the original.

  13. #43

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by edward1978 View Post
    Nope, I used to disagree with you because I wanted the original JII back so badly, but now that Tony Baxter has jumped ship, now we'll never get the original back, can't be done without his guidance. Now I will have to settle for what you have been wanting, something in loving spirit of the original.
    lol well its technically not nope because you are agreeing to exactly what i suggested all along, your just forced into those circumstances of admitting my correctness by the facts life has presented . haha

  14. #44

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    lol well its technically not nope because you are agreeing to exactly what i suggested all along, your just forced into those circumstances of admitting my correctness by the facts life has presented . haha
    Oh yes it a nope, because I hated your idea for JII. Now with Tony Baxter retiring, how in the world are you going to bring back a ride in which you have no knowledge of, now I have no knowledge of how the original JII was built, neither do you or anybody else except maybe for a few imagineers. I sure do wish time travel to the past was possible, so that I and many others could all ride the original Epcot rides including the original JII.

  15. #45

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    Re: Bad News Imagination fans

    I agree, Universe of Energy does need a overhaul. The Dino's barely even move now compared to the early 80's and Ellen doesn't even look anywhere close do what she does now. That's the trouble with incorporating popular stars into the attractions. You need to keep updating them to keep up with their current looks. Otherwise you'll have people leaving Immagination and Energy thinking they don't look like that anymore.
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