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  1. #46

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Not even close.

    Here is Al's paragraph on the issue...
    Way to miss the part that Al said what corporate thinks.

    "The executive team is recalibrating when the big money gets spent in Walt Disney’s original magic kingdom and is pooling their resources to go after a big Tomorrowland overhaul that would open all at once in a grand Cars Land type reveal, rather than in bits and pieces over several years like the New Fantasyland project in WDW has been doing.

    It’s no secret the New Fantasyland project has shown lackluster customer satisfaction ratings, and the piecemeal way it debuted last year with major construction still underway on the D-Ticket mine coaster is not helping things there this year. (Maybe all those suits should have taken the underwhelming response Jay Rasulo got when the project was confirmed at the D23 Expo a few years back more seriously, instead of blowing it all off.) Cars Land is widely understood now to be the way to open a major new land, and New Fantasyland’s staggered 18 month long reveal is the scenario to avoid."

    Yeah.
    -Bill

  2. #47

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    What success? You mean non-success. Disney already said the New Fantasyland is ready and open for business. Have they fooled you too?

    Okay, you say that but here's the predicament they face:



    They either, A.) Open up sections of New Fantasyland, and continue construction on the Mine Coaster, or B.) They keep it all entirely closed until the whole thing is finished. Either way, people are going to complain.

    My point was that I think the Mine Coaster will bring everything together aesthetically and functionally. Fantasyland will have a new big attraction in addition to Peter Pan's Flight, Dumbo and The Mad Tea Party, and we won't have construction walls in the middle of it anymore.


    I think we just need to be patient and let things come to completion before we start blowing whistles.

  3. #48

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Way to miss the part that Al said what corporate thinks.

    "The executive team is recalibrating when the big money gets spent in Walt Disney’s original magic kingdom and is pooling their resources to go after a big Tomorrowland overhaul that would open all at once in a grand Cars Land type reveal, rather than in bits and pieces over several years like the New Fantasyland project in WDW has been doing.

    It’s no secret the New Fantasyland project has shown lackluster customer satisfaction ratings, and the piecemeal way it debuted last year with major construction still underway on the D-Ticket mine coaster is not helping things there this year. (Maybe all those suits should have taken the underwhelming response Jay Rasulo got when the project was confirmed at the D23 Expo a few years back more seriously, instead of blowing it all off.) Cars Land is widely understood now to be the way to open a major new land, and New Fantasyland’s staggered 18 month long reveal is the scenario to avoid."

    Yeah.
    Okay, that's what they think in Burbank. Do they think the same in Orlando?

  4. #49

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Way to miss the part that Al said what corporate thinks.

    "The executive team is recalibrating when the big money gets spent in Walt Disney’s original magic kingdom and is pooling their resources to go after a big Tomorrowland overhaul that would open all at once in a grand Cars Land type reveal, rather than in bits and pieces over several years like the New Fantasyland project in WDW has been doing.

    It’s no secret the New Fantasyland project has shown lackluster customer satisfaction ratings, and the piecemeal way it debuted last year with major construction still underway on the D-Ticket mine coaster is not helping things there this year. (Maybe all those suits should have taken the underwhelming response Jay Rasulo got when the project was confirmed at the D23 Expo a few years back more seriously, instead of blowing it all off.) Cars Land is widely understood now to be the way to open a major new land, and New Fantasyland’s staggered 18 month long reveal is the scenario to avoid."

    Yeah.
    So what's the alternative? leave Mermaid, Belle, the new restaurants and Storybook circus completed and closed for a year until they finish the coaster? That would have been an even worse idea. There is no problem with opening the place up in phases, they just should have held off on the grand opening promotion until it was all done. Once the mine is complete then the could hold their big dedication ceremony and do all that new Fantasyland promotional junk. The marketing was anxious and premature, that's the real problem with the opening not the way it was done. Almost all large projects at Disney that aren't all new parks have debut that way.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  5. #50

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Can't say I didn't see this one coming. I don't know why Disney had so many eggs in such a small basket. What kind of numbers were they expecting from a redecorated Barnstormer, an extra spinner on Dumbo, two restaurants and an attraction that already made it's debut in California?? Especially since this expansion is seen as a response to the success of the 'Wizarding World' on the other side of town. (Or is that just how us fan boys see it?)

    All in all, they did an amazing job theming the area. No complaints there whatsoever from me at least..but the expansion was extremely light on anything to actually be excited about.

    Maybe this might be a lesson they need to learn that slapping a brand on everything new isn't going to guarantee success...quality does.

    Better luck next time Disney, I'm rooting for you.
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  6. #51

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    they just should have held off on the grand opening promotion until it was all done. Once the mine is complete then the could hold their big dedication ceremony and do all that new Fantasyland promotional junk. The marketing was anxious and premature, that's the real problem with the opening not the way it was done. Almost all large projects at Disney that aren't all new parks have debut that way.
    Bingo. Although no matter what, New Fantasyland could never have the same impact as Carsland did at DCA because New Fantasyland as it was/is being built is not what the Magic Kingdom needed.

    Having said that, as far as marketing with what actually was/is being built, yes, I agree with you 100%.
    -Bill

  7. #52

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    So what's the alternative? leave Mermaid, Belle, the new restaurants and Storybook circus completed and closed for a year until they finish the coaster? That would have been an even worse idea. There is no problem with opening the place up in phases, they just should have held off on the grand opening promotion until it was all done. Once the mine is complete then the could hold their big dedication ceremony and do all that new Fantasyland promotional junk. The marketing was anxious and premature, that's the real problem with the opening not the way it was done. Almost all large projects at Disney that aren't all new parks have debut that way.
    The alternative was to expedite the building of the Dwarves coaster but Disney selected not to do that. They could have but they thought - "oh in 2013 we don't have anything new so we'll push the Dwarves coaster then - surely the public will love/embrace our New Fantasyland (Annex) in the interim simply because we are Disney".

    And, they backed the wrong horse in that decision. We have an unfinished expansion with very little of substance going for it that keeps opening in "phases". Now people are trying to defend that decision and say look, you can't judge the place yet because it isn't entirely finished. Yes, we can judge it. The Dwarves coaster is no Space Mountain it is probably the Dino-land thing meets a few AA figures - big deal. It will be a success and so busy but it's not a people eater - quite the contrary. The Raiders of the Lost Ark coasters in TDR and DLP suck - they are just a small coaster in the park. Nothing to travel for at all. Dwarves may be a D ticket at best but it's not Space, Thunder or anything of the like.

  8. #53

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Okay, that's what they think in Burbank. Do they think the same in Orlando?
    I would assume so, but it really doesn't matter what Orlando's management thinks. The park expansion decisions are no longer going to be made in Orlando going forward.
    -Bill

  9. #54

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lutz
    Maybe all those suits should have taken the underwhelming response Jay Rasulo got when the project was confirmed at the D23 Expo a few years back more seriously, instead of blowing it all off.
    No matter how many lessons Disney's own decisions in the last two decades should have taught them about what works and what doesn't, their bureaucratic braintrust of Chief Financial Officers and Strategic Planning number crunchers refuse to hear anything but the sound of their own groupthink. Orlando's "New Fantasyland" is a smaller symptom of the same closed-minded management process that brought DCA 1.0 to Anaheim. At Disney, managers and projects may change but the group self-delusion remains the same. (Currently cooking in the same half-baked oven: MyMagic+ and NextGen.)
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 02-07-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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  10. #55

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I agree that the new Fantasyland is somewhat underwhelming. I was there last October and the land felt incomplete with the shuttering of the Snow White dark ride and the Mine Train coaster construction. The queue for Ariel's Underwater Adventures looked very nice, along with the architectural style of the buildings. In my humble opinion, it would have been better if they had opened up the expansion after all work had been completed. Of course, I'm partial to Disneyland's Fantasyland, since there is more to experience. I've only been to Disney World twice, and Fantasyland always seemed to be "incomplete" by comparison.

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I would assume so, but it really doesn't matter what Orlando's management thinks. The park expansion decisions are no longer going to be made in Orlando going forward.
    Going forward, it is unclear who is in charge. It seems like Orlando was dictating to Anaheim with the One Disney effort. The recent organizational changes suggested things have changed, but Orlando can still decide to do things differently. We just have to wait and see. As I state originally, I wasn't talking about management. It was clear that the New Fantasyland was completely done wrong. It is now in the past.

  12. #57

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    There´s not much to say. New Fantasyland is just an addition, but it really doesn´t add much at all. Last time I was WOWed by Disney was when I went on the Harry Potter ride. ...but that is not Disney now is it.

    New Fantasyland... who cares? Nothing to talk about there. People want something NEW.
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  13. #58

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    Red Face Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by VintageMouse View Post
    I agree that the new Fantasyland is somewhat underwhelming. I was there last October and the land felt incomplete with the shuttering of the Snow White dark ride and the Mine Train coaster construction. The queue for Ariel's Underwater Adventures looked very nice, along with the architectural style of the buildings. In my humble opinion, it would have been better if they had opened up the expansion after all work had been completed. Of course, I'm partial to Disneyland's Fantasyland, since there is more to experience. I've only been to Disney World twice, and Fantasyland always seemed to be "incomplete" by comparison.
    I enjoyed the detail that came with the 83' upgrade to DLs Fantasyland. I still remember taking the skyway to get a look at the construction....I hope the Mine coaster is immersive and brings all the elements of Snow Whites scarry adventure..I dont like the creapy clown show..nothong wrong with nicely themed dining they created but as T3 mentioned above not alot to "truly" entice one to rush out to WDW for a visit.

  14. #59

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I thought that the land was always there so why its taking 18 months to open it? At least here in CA we don't claim that we just build it.
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  15. #60

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    The new Fantasyland is not really all the bad. The theming is the best that Disney has done in recent years. It is a LOT Better than what was there before (After they filled in the 20K lagoon) As for numbers, when I visited - which was a "slow" day there was a 75 minute wait for the Little Mermaid, the line for Be Our Guest was already shut for lunch service and there was still an hour wait to get in. Story Time with Belle was a 90 minute wait. The walkways were clogged worse than I-4 at rush hour. Dumbo had a 65 minute wait time. So I guess it wasn't that busy by "corporate - meaning suits that never set foot in the park and have no clue how the park works" standards. To clarify "slow", the rest of the park had 10-15 minute waits on EVERYTHING

    For me New Fantasyland looks this way.....

    Little Mermaid, a cute "C" ride based on one of the newer classic films. Something the park needed to gobble up people on a busy day. Could have been better, but good just the same.

    Be Our Guest Restaurant - The park needed some new dining alternatives, but they have shuddered locations throughout the park, so was a new venue really needed. Although nice (from what I hear) I think they could have re-opened one of the shuttered locations and had the same effect and built a dark ride based on Beauty and the Beast instead in that location bringing ride capacity higher.

    As for Dumbo, I don't get why this ride is so popular especially since there were already two more just like it in the same park, so now there are 4 spinner rides that are essentially the same thing but themed differently. I guess flying in an elephant is more popular than a flying carpet or space ship. But if you went to animal Kingdom you could do the same ride again in a dinosaur.

    The whole Dumbo Circus area is very well done and a lot better than the half baked Toontown that it replaced. Those Toontown tents were meant to be temporary, but somehow my mind can't grasp Disney's definition of temporary now that they have been there for almost 30 years. Some of the "permanent" rides and attractions are gone in less time than that. But I do like the Dumbo Circus area and it's theming is the best I a have seen from Disney in a long time. The new train station is perfect and the character "tent" is good too.

    Theming in the rest of "New" Fantasyland is also top notch and will look beautiful once the mine Coaster is done. I only hope that the Mine Coaster will be a suitable replacement for Snow White. Comapared to Disneyland's Fantasyland though, there is very little Fantasy in Florida. I would have liked to have seen the Pinocchio ride, Mr.Toad and Snow White's Scary Adventures all in Florida along with attractions based on Alice in Wonderland (whether a ride like in Disneyland or the maze like in Paris). Sure they have the Tea Cups, but that's it. What about an attraction based on Cinderella or even Sleeping Beauty. After all they have the land (Disney said so himself).

    The Magic Kingdom may be larger in size to Disneyland, but there is so much less to do. When I am asked which park I like better I often say that each park has elements that I like over the other, but overall, Disneyland just seems more "magical"

    Another issue with the parks is the increase in strollers. Strollers everywhere, parked wherever, huge parking lots of strollers, people pushing strollers, Strollers strollers everywhere, and the worst part most of them are empty. The kids aren't in them yet the parents are still pushing strollers. If your kids won't sit in the strollers, guess what-- YOU DON'T NEED IT ANYMORE! Don't even get me started on ECV's.

    Was New Fantasyland a good response to Harry Potter, Not by a longshot. There are similarities in the two expansions, but overall there is no comparison, this time around Universal did it right. Both expansions offered new rides and repurposed others. The "new" attraction in Harry Potter was a big "E" ticket ride, New Fantasyland a mediocre "C" ticket. Both lands repurposed existing rides, HP, renamed and themed the "E" ticket Dueling Dragons plus the small kiddy coaster that was there called a flying unicorn or something. Disney did the same re-theming the barnstormer, but they are adding a smaller scale coaster giving new fantasyland a new "C" or "D" ride. Both areas offered new shops and restaurants that get a lot of hype and have their own "specialty" drinks. Both expansions also have a new little show, although Disney this time has the larger production with Story Time with Belle, Harry has his frog choir. Overall though Universal did a better job altogether and Disney cheaped out.
    Last edited by ti2gr; 02-09-2013 at 07:08 AM.

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