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  1. #61

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Disney's answer to Harry Potter is Carsland. The new Fantasyland doesn't come anywhere close to what they did there.

  2. #62

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    While I love what they did....most of it was nothing that would draw too many....it was more of a foundation of what should have been there for years

    And since The Mine Train is the only new ride (mermaid is a clone) not too much to say because the Dragon is cool, Beasts castle is great (if you can get a reservation) and overall it looks amazing but much of these should have been done years ago like i said earlier

  3. #63

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    From the moment the original proposal for New Fantasyland debuted, my heart sank. It sounded like California Adventure and Light Magic all over again, with the four meet-and-greets, but no E-Ticket attraction to seize the imagination. Then it was overhauled down to one meet-and-greet, with a kid's coaster. Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom better get back into the "seizing the imagination" business again, instead of running a museum of great rides built decades ago. Universal smells blood in the water, and they're coming to take a huge bite. New Fantasyland isn't even a band aid on the wound of the last ten years. The best thing that's happened at the Magic Kingdom is ripping out the abomination that was Tiki Room: Under New Management. Didn't Walt say Disneyland would never be completed as long as imagination remained in the world? Why is there no imagination on the East Coast, while Disneyland is blossoming ever young? Get it together, Orlando.

  4. #64

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I agree, I'm glad WDW removed the "Under New Management" debacle from the Tiki Room, that was absolutely horrible. On the other hand, the Haunted Mansion remake was incredible and the refurbished SM was pretty good.
    Current coaster count: 155
    100th coaster: Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood
    150th coaster: Intimidator at Carowinds
    last new park addition: Fun Spot America

  5. #65

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyRister View Post
    Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom better get back into the "seizing the imagination" business again, instead of running a museum of great rides built decades ago. Universal smells blood in the water, and they're coming to take a huge bite.
    Bingo. There's nothing easier to steal market share from than a #1 business that is having its profits squeezed by an arrogant management team that has grown long on complacency and short on vision. All Universal has to do is think like Disney once did, and Disney will do the rest.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  6. #66

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    ^Believe it or not, quite a few Universal's Creative Design Team Members are former Disney Immagineers. It used to be that tourists would stay at WDW Resorts and drive down to Universal Orlando Resort for a day or two. Now, more tourists are staying at Universal Orlando Resort and driving over to Disney for a day or two. UOR also just started construction on its fifth hotel earlier this year so it seems, for now, that Universal is beating Disney at it's own game. As a long time Orlando resident I can tell you that it appears, to me, that WDW has gotten used to being the big dog on the block. Now UOR and even SWO to a small degree are starting to take bites out of WDW.
    Last edited by Coasterjunkie; 02-09-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Grammer

  7. #67

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    If it is true that the numbers for the new fantasyland expansion are not what they expected is because of the staggered opening. I could very well be that the people the are aware of the expansion are also aware of the construction still going on with the main centerpiece of the land. It makes sense to wait on any major expense for a vacation until its all open.
    The expansion is also not a big draw to the resort unless you already had plan visiting WDW to begin with instead it would make more sense to plan the vacation to Anaheim where the same dark ride is present along with a huge Carsland expansion that had global advertising.



    with that said

    The problems i have with the expansion is the lack of full immersion of each specific story that they incorporated. If this new area had been built in Anaheim i would understand the close proximity of the Beauty and the Beast area with Mermaid and circus area.

    Once the coaster is open the transition might help if it is heavily landscaped but i still think that with all the land they have in the Magic kingdom especially in the northern area next to Fantasyland they could have added much more green zones.

    just by looking at google map it looks like they still had a huge piece of land behind both the Beauty and the Beast area and Mermaid attraction before even reaching the Magic Kingdom railroad tracks.
    It would have been much more dramatic and immersive if they had built the Beauty and the Beast Castle and restaurant with all its rockwork and detailed rooms right up against the tracks and then built a more complete village with shops, small eateries, book store and a courtyard using the piece of property that they used now. Along with that a large green zone with lots of trees to create a foresty area.

    Mermaid should have had the same kind of treatment since there is plenty of property space behind the built attraction and maybe a larger water feature could have been made in front of the attraction. with the minor criticism they received about the ending of the attraction in DCA while the one in WDW was still under construction, they should have altered the plans immediately and expanded the show building to include a more elaborate ending as well

  8. #68

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Coasterjunkie View Post
    ^Believe it or not, quite a few Universal's Creative Design Team Members are former Disney Immagineers.
    Since the advent of Eisner, Disney has regarded its creatives not as pillars of the company but wrists for hire. The joke in town has been that "Disney trains the best talent its competition can buy."

    The sad thing is that it's no joke.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #69

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyRister View Post
    From the moment the original proposal for New Fantasyland debuted, my heart sank. It sounded like California Adventure and Light Magic all over again, with the four meet-and-greets, but no E-Ticket attraction to seize the imagination. Then it was overhauled down to one meet-and-greet, with a kid's coaster.

    Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom better get back into the "seizing the imagination" business again, instead of running a museum of great rides built decades ago. Universal smells blood in the water, and they're coming to take a huge bite. New Fantasyland isn't even a band aid on the wound of the last ten years.

    The best thing that's happened at the Magic Kingdom is ripping out the abomination that was Tiki Room: Under New Management.

    Didn't Walt say Disneyland would never be completed as long as imagination remained in the world? Why is there no imagination on the East Coast, while Disneyland is blossoming ever young? Get it together, Orlando.
    Excellent post! (I added a few line spaces so readers could pause between excellent points.) I can't imagine Disney executives reading it, but I could imagine someone at Universal sharing it with a co-worker and then exchanging high 5s.

    I hope Staggsnation doesn't say, "Well, now that the Disneyland Resort is fine,
    we'll let D land stagnate (
    Staggsnate) for 12 years and work on WDW
    ."
    I'm not claiming Rasulo/Iger/Staggs/Crofton (RISC) are = to post-Wells Eisner/Pressler,
    just that they were created by Michael Eisner
    & are more are influenced by Paul Pressler than by Walt Disney.

  10. #70

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Having seen New Fantasyland during a quick whirlwind weekend trip, I have to agree with the assessment in Al's update. The staggered 18 month "opening" schedule was the wrong strategy. I think it'll be an amazing land when the Mine Train is finally open. And a full "grand opening" with all the attractions at once, a la Cars Land, would have impressed the public and driven attendance to the levels that they expected--but are not getting now.

    That being said, as a west coast resident, I will end up visiting WDW at least *twice* this year. Some friends are also trying to persuade me to do a land/sea trip in the fall--which, if it comes together, would be three trips in one year. To say that guests from the west coast (and I live only 45 miles away from DL) won't go to WDW is false. At the same, time, I do have to give props to Universal. Whenever I go to Orlando, I now plan at least one Universal day for our trip. Prior to 2010, we never bothered. I really hope the increased level of competition is driving Disney to invest more into their parks.

  11. #71

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I would assume so, but it really doesn't matter what Orlando's management thinks. The park expansion decisions are no longer going to be made in Orlando going forward.
    I so hope you are right. Walt Disney World management can't be trusted with vision for their property.
    Gullywhumper is back on the Rivers of America!

  12. #72

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    While I love what they did....most of it was nothing that would draw too many....it was more of a foundation of what should have been there for years

    And since The Mine Train is the only new ride (mermaid is a clone) not too much to say because the Dragon is cool, Beasts castle is great (if you can get a reservation) and overall it looks amazing but much of these should have been done years ago like i said earlier
    I totally agree with JarrodDRagon on this one!
    Gullywhumper is back on the Rivers of America!

  13. #73

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Since the advent of Eisner, Disney has regarded its creatives not as pillars of the company but wrists for hire. The joke in town has been that "Disney trains the best talent its competition can buy."

    The sad thing is that it's no joke.
    I wonder if Tony Baxter might do some contracting with other companies? Universal...?
    Gullywhumper is back on the Rivers of America!

  14. #74

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    frnkly if you are a "west Coater" there really is very little reason for you to go to universal studios. Ioa is different, ( except for jurasic park), but the studios has most of the same attractions that hollywood has. Frankly I was considering skipping universal hollywood when i go back to california this year because there is very little difference and i can get a better studios tour at warner brothers just down the road. While the magic kingdom is alot like it's california counterpart. I have very little reason to go to DCA because I can ride very similar rides if not exact clones in orlando. ( cars land is very similar if not the same as test track btw.) frankly getting tired of the negativity. I frankly enjoy the new fantasyland.

  15. #75

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I enjoy the new Fantasyland, its totally eye candy. That said, I just can't agree with the above post. I find USH much more interesting that USF. USF is very ride based and fake, and USH is very really. Carsland is nothing like test track except for a similar ride system between Radiator Springs Racers and Test Track. You can say they are "similar if not the same", but doing so does nothing for your credibility.

    They are vastly different experiences, even when comparing just RRS to TT. Indy and Dino are more similar. They have the same ride system and same track layout and same ride time duration. The similarity between the land "Carsland" and the attraction, "Test track", end in that one of Carsland's three attractions uses a similar ride system as Test Track, but with a completely different layout. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Not even close to the same.

    FL is struggling because unlike Carsland, it was pieced together and opened in the grand "phased" type opening that is now habit at WDW. One poster said they should have put more money into the mine coaster to ensure it opened with the rest of the land. I agree completely. If that was not an option, then the grand opening should have waited until the lands centerpiece attraction was completed. And it is the main center piece.

    So they grand opened their new fantasyland attraction with out its main show piece.

    Did they open Epcot prior to the completion of Spaceship Earth?
    Did they open Disney-MGM studios prior to the completion of the Great Movie Ride?
    Did they open DAK prior to the completion of the Tree of Life?
    Did they open the MK prior to the completion of Cinderella Castle?

    In all four cases, the show piece was actually completed first, then the rest of the project.

    With Carsland, they could have opened Maters first, the a shop, perhaps Flo's, and maybe even Luigi's Flying Tires, and finally complete it with the opening of Radiator Springs Racers. And had they done that, I think DCA would not be benefiting as much from a WOW they got and the following word of mouth that resulting by opening every thing at once.

    Its not negative, its an observation. I agree with those who say new Fantasyland was not a response to Harry Potter but rather just a needed enhancement to the most popular land in the MK. With a new Omni Mover type ride instead of Snow White, and doubling the Dumbos, even in its incomplete form, it certainly does adds hourly capacity to this area of the park. Could have added even more by keeping the old Snow White ride but we've beaten that poor topic up to pieces. The objective of adding capacity was met, but it was poorly managed. And in the end, they spent big bucks and didn't get any significant change in guest spending or ticket sales. So in that case, the project has been a disappointment. Failure might to a bit too strong but I think Disappointment is more then fair assessment.

    You can try to spin it if you want, but a funny thing about spinning, is most can sense that it is exactly that.... a spin on the truth, and not the actual truth.

    DCA is enjoying a Massive increase in attendance, but over all Disney Parks in the USA have a total of a 4% increase, what does that tell you about WDW? Makes me wonder if that "hair" improvement/growth at WDW actually exists at all?

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