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  1. #76

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    They opened New Orleans Square without the Haunted Mansion. They opened ToonTown without Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin. This is nothing new. Slow-walking the Snow White ride isn't the problem.

    My opinion remains they shouldn't have lowballed the land in the first place. Disney is "Disney" because of what Bradbury once observed...they went the extra mile to delight you, with details they didn't have to add, but once created and observed, you knew you needed them all along. The "biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history" has TWO new rides. People come to a theme park for the attractions. Stomping around in a circle carrying a cardboard cut-out of The Beast or a horse or whatever --- that's not an attraction. Of your whopping two new rides, one of which is a D ticket dark ride, the other hasn't opened yet, but even *then*...where is the use of all that land to sieze the imagination, imagineers? Team Orlando, you have to get into the Extra Mile game. You're taking the audience for granted. Universal beating you on your own turf is like DreamWorks winning the first Best Animated Feature Oscar. You take this lying down, guess who is going to be walking all over you.

  2. #77

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyRister View Post
    They opened New Orleans Square without the Haunted Mansion. They opened ToonTown without Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin. This is nothing new. Slow-walking the Snow White ride isn't the problem.

    My opinion remains they shouldn't have lowballed the land in the first place. Disney is "Disney" because of what Bradbury once observed...they went the extra mile to delight you, with details they didn't have to add, but once created and observed, you knew you needed them all along. The "biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history" has TWO new rides. People come to a theme park for the attractions. Stomping around in a circle carrying a cardboard cut-out of The Beast or a horse or whatever --- that's not an attraction. Of your whopping two new rides, one of which is a D ticket dark ride, the other hasn't opened yet, but even *then*...where is the use of all that land to sieze the imagination, imagineers? Team Orlando, you have to get into the Extra Mile game. You're taking the audience for granted. Universal beating you on your own turf is like DreamWorks winning the first Best Animated Feature Oscar. You take this lying down, guess who is going to be walking all over you.
    Have you seen the new Fantasy Land stuff? Or are you just another one of these posters that post more hear-say?

    I've been to it and the details are amazing, much like everything else Disney does. While "Ariel's ride isn't the "best ride ever!" it is still a nice ride with a ton of detail added at every turn. Bells Castle was amazing and I would have gonr through it 100 times just to watch the mirror effect, not to mention Lumiere ! The animatronics were something else. Top notch Disney work!

    I don't go to Disney for the rides. If I want rides I can go to Six Flags and it only an hour away by car. I go to Disney because they still go the extra mile, that little bit you don't expect but its the part that ends up blowing you away.

    I went to Las Vegas a couple years ago and we went through the hotels/casinos. The Venetian was beautiful. The pillars, and sky painted ceilings were beautiful, but there was something missing. We finally figured it out, it was the details! They skipped so many of them that Disney would have put in that it lost that "magic" that pushes you over the edge.

    I think Disney still does one heck of a job. In this world with the financial situations they MUST deal with day in and day out, they still pull it off.

  3. #78

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I am looking forward to seeing the new Fantasyland for myself when I visit the Magic Kingdom next. That should be during my up and coming trip to Florida in just 2 short months. I will reserve judgement about the land, until I see it.

    It would be nice if posters would clarify their opinions, and statements, and let us know if they have actually visited Magic Kingdom since the new land was unveiled.

  4. #79

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    I am looking forward to seeing the new Fantasyland for myself when I visit the Magic Kingdom next. That should be during my up and coming trip to Florida in just 2 short months. I will reserve judgement about the land, until I see it.

    It would be nice if posters would clarify their opinions, and statements, and let us know if they have actually visited Magic Kingdom since the new land was unveiled.
    It is nice. The best looking part of Fantasyland. The queue of the Little Mermaid was really nice. I didn't like the walls, but constructing has been progressing well since, so it should better when you visit as the mountain in the middle will look more done rather than a chunk of steel.
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  5. #80

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    It would be nice if posters would clarify their opinions, and statements, and let us know if they have actually visited Magic Kingdom since the new land was unveiled.
    Yes, I've visited the new Fantasyland Forest and I believe that most of those who have chimed in on this thread have visited also.

    First though, I have to laugh at everyone who seems to think that the Dwarves Coaster is this "great white hope" (a boxing reference) for the Magic Kingdom’s new Fantasyland project. Furthermore, I am shocked that these same people view people like me as crass for not reserving judgment or opinions of the land until this coaster opens. To that point I would like to remind you that the Dwarves Coaster was a last minute add and was never meant to be the primary feature of the land (the Little Mermaid ride was). The new management regime of Tom Staggs realized that the Princess concept for this project was layered on to the point of absurdity and that they needed to add something for the young male contingent.

    As I recall Tom Stagg’s son brought the realization to his attention of the fact there was nothing for boys to do. Well Tom Staggs Jr., because of your vocal passion your peers in the "snips and snails and puppy dog's tails" crowd (the boys) got a bone thrown to them in the form of this coaster. What nobody seems to be talking about is the fact that we had a coaster in the land already. Well, I suppose we should be happy it wasn't another 3D movie or spinner ride. Also, there is absolutely no reason Dwarves didn’t open up when the land debuted last year. The only reason for the delay is that Disney had no other capital expansion plans for 2014 so they thought they’d tout this as their “new” ride for 2014 and give it the “Phase 2” treatment.

    Even with the Dwarves Coaster and it’s anticipated success the jury is still out as to whether Disney can call this new expansion a rousing success, a mild success or a just a non-material "Yawn" on the Magic Kingdom timeline.

    As for the theming of the new area – it’s true that they did a stellar job! But, that being said, I have to express concern that we're lauding the Imagineers for creating an immersive environment when, excuse me, isn't that their job all along??? I didn't "hope" they'd have an immersive forest concept I was someone who actually "expected" them to create one all along. Granted, this is the same crowd that brought Imagination 2.0 to us so perhaps I should have been more cautious.


    Most people come to Disney expecting and immersive environment while they are walking from attraction to attraction, shop to attraction and so forth. They expect the environment to be innocuous, yet rock !! You should expect to believe that you are in a Fantasy Forest as you are walking from attraction to attraction. I believe the real issue for many in this thread is that the immersive environment seems to end right at the point you board some of the attractions – the Little Mermaid pre-show line seems to overshadow the attraction itself.

    I am glad they built the area up and added capacity. It's just that the total end result is "eh, OK" - nothing truly compels you to return. It's a bunch of little attractions that really don't amount to an engaging or compelling reason to drop $4000 two years in a row to “experience the fun”.

    If they had done a villains ride or something similar to that, something totally new and "fresh" then hardcore Disney fans would have a hard decision on their hands in 2013 – “Carsland or Magic Kingdom” - darn, I can't choose so I'll flip a coin – I wish I was a millionaire so I could do both. The reality is that for the Disney fan in the know, the decision seems easy, “I will see the new Fantasyland when I visit the Magic Kingdom next”. But for Carsland, “I will go to see Carsland and then take in all the other Disneyland attractions I love”.

  6. #81

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I'll preface this by saying that I have not seen the new Fantasyland in person yet (I'll be there this summer and am looking forward to it), but there are a few things I'd like to chime in on.

    First and foremost, comparing this to Cars Land is extremely disingenuous. Cars Land was an entirely new land and the final phase of a four year refresh of an entire park. New Fantasyland is simply a refresh of a single land; keeping much of the same infrastructure but enhancing the theme. A more appropriate comparison would be Paradise Pier 2.0 or Disneyland's new Fantasyland of 1983.

    What did 1983's Fantasyland get? An enhanced theme, a grand total of one new attraction (Pinocchio's Daring Journey, charming but by no means an "E-ticket"), the removal of the Fantasyland Theater as well as the Pirate Ship and Skull Rock, and a new location for the Carousel, Dumbo, and Mad Tea Party. On paper, it doesn't sound terribly exciting, but it was a much needed and well recieved refresh of the land, and it gives it an enduring quality that lasts to this day.

    Now, Disney's doing much the same thing here with Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland, in fact in sheer number of new attractions they have twice as many as Disneyland's update had, and yet people are whining about it. Yeah, The Little Mermaid isn't the most spectacular new attraction the world has ever seen, but it isn't really trying to be. It's a fairly charming attraction based on a beloved film and it isn't attempting to be any more than that. None of us have had a chance to ride the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train coaster, but I imagine it's not going to be on the level of Expedition Everest, nor is it trying to be.

    Of course New Fantasyland isn't drawing the same kind of crowds Cars Land is drawing, because it's a completely different type of experience. It's apples and oranges, and both fans and Disney execs need to understand that. Just because it's not drawing crowds in the same way Cars Land is does not mean it's a failure. For what it set out to do it looks pretty wonderful in my opinion.

    I will give you this, if you look at this as Disney's answer to Wizarding World of Harry Potter it's a failure. If you look at it as an event opening to draw crowds in the same way Cars Land did it's a failure. However, if you look at it as a thematic refresh of a land that really desperately needed it, I think it's a fairly rousing success. The problem is that WDW doesn't have any big Cars Land type event openings in the schedule, and so they're hoping an apple will end up being an orange and are sorely disappointed when it doesn't happen. So disappointed, in fact, that they make knee-jerk reactions like saying "Avatar Land! Do that!" or "Cars Land! We need one too!"

  7. #82

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    I know why it ain't getting numbers. It's missing the original version of Journey into Imagination lol

  8. #83

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusion0fLife View Post
    I'll preface this by saying that I have not seen the new Fantasyland in person yet (I'll be there this summer and am looking forward to it), but there are a few things I'd like to chime in on.

    First and foremost, comparing this to Cars Land is extremely disingenuous. Cars Land was an entirely new land and the final phase of a four year refresh of an entire park. New Fantasyland is simply a refresh of a single land; keeping much of the same infrastructure but enhancing the theme. A more appropriate comparison would be Paradise Pier 2.0 or Disneyland's new Fantasyland of 1983.

    Of course New Fantasyland isn't drawing the same kind of crowds Cars Land is drawing, because it's a completely different type of experience. It's apples and oranges, and both fans and Disney execs need to understand that. Just because it's not drawing crowds in the same way Cars Land is does not mean it's a failure. For what it set out to do it looks pretty wonderful in my opinion.

    I will give you this, if you look at this as Disney's answer to Wizarding World of Harry Potter it's a failure. If you look at it as an event opening to draw crowds in the same way Cars Land did it's a failure. However, if you look at it as a thematic refresh of a land that really desperately needed it, I think it's a fairly rousing success. The problem is that WDW doesn't have any big Cars Land type event openings in the schedule, and so they're hoping an apple will end up being an orange and are sorely disappointed when it doesn't happen. So disappointed, in fact, that they make knee-jerk reactions like saying "Avatar Land! Do that!" or "Cars Land! We need one too!"
    Oh puh-lease, let's not kid ourselves, Disney invested in this project primarily to boost attendance not just "refresh" a land. The Fantasyland attractions in DL were essentially gutted and replaced in 1983 with updated technologies as they were long in the tooth and probably falling apart after 28 years of constant use so it was just cheaper to gut and replace.

    This new Fantasyland is being billed as an "exapansion" because it is exactly that - it has quite the same, if not more, of a foot print as Cars Land does - around 6 acres. While parts were built over existing 20 k much unused open space that wasn't 20k related is now built out.

    Disney, however, dumbed it down to the point that the project was announced and then all of a sudden it gets modified big time (Dwarves are in and some Princesses are relocated to the low rent area of Fantasyland) - all because there was nothing to do for boys - poor planning all around.

    The thread is about Disney getting their numbers relative to their investment. In the long run, it may very well prove to be another DCA type of fiasco - at original DCA Soarin was "fun" but after seeing it once you couldn't pay me to go back to DCA because there was no repeatability factor for the rest of the park - the place was a dog.

    In NFL they tried to improve a "mature asset" (MK Park) on the cheap and now they are scratching their heads as to why people are dismissing it (especially their loyal fan base).

    Again, no repeatability - you've seen it once you're now ready to "See Jesus" (or whomever you'd prefer).

    The original concept seemed to be designed to appease the Merchandise business team who wanted to sell more princess crap than create a memorable guest experience. Can't say that I blame them, the new Disney is about these kinds of "merchandise experiences" these days - I guess these synergistic goals make them money as they also cause revolt in these threads from hardcore fans.

    To be honest, if they created at least a fresh "C-Ticket" omni-mover I would have given them more credit but this cloning crap has got to go if they want to appease a hard core and demanding fan base.

    That being said, to you or anyone else viewing this thread, we are all Disney fans and support them to no end. What's the adage, "I kid because I care". We want them to be their best because we're proud of their past accomplishments and enjoy sharing them with them. I'm not trying to be a Chinese Mother here (insisting on the best all the time) but Disney is getting sloppy in the U.S. and the competition for the entertainment dollar is strong. Go the way of cheap and you'll be known for being an also ran and second rate. Time will tell!
    Last edited by disneytom; 02-19-2013 at 05:05 PM.

  9. #84

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Itīs simple... they built something boring. People do not want to be bored.
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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    Itīs simple... they built something boring. People do not want to be bored.
    I think that's a bit too far. I don't find anything in New Fantasyland boring. In fact, everything there is of superb quality. The issue is that there isn't enough. The meet-and-greets are great, the restaurants are fine, and the attractions are fun. The problem is that there isn't a significant, ground-breaking addition. What's there is great, it just is more of the same and not enough.

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    I think that's a bit too far. I don't find anything in New Fantasyland boring. In fact, everything there is of superb quality. The issue is that there isn't enough. The meet-and-greets are great, the restaurants are fine, and the attractions are fun. The problem is that there isn't a significant, ground-breaking addition. What's there is great, it just is more of the same and not enough.
    Itīs not bad... but itīs nothing that needed to be there either. Why add something that doesnīt need to be there? Who cares if there are 4 or if there are 5 slices of cheese on a sandwich?

    WDW needs attention... but not in this way. Hope it bites them.
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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    WDW needs attention... but not in this way. Hope it bites them.
    Whether or not we agree on the inherent quality of New Fantasyland I would hope we'd all realize that New Fantasyland being a flop with Cars Land being a success will send absolutely the wrong message to WDW.

    We've already seen the signs. They're talking about slapping a scaled down version of Cars Land over DHS in response to all of this. If WDW management sees New Fantasyland suffer their immediate response will be "oh well, we tried. Let's just clone some popular attractions from Disneyland."

    Trust me, if New Fantasyland flops really hard no one will end up happy.

  13. #88

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    Itīs not bad... but itīs nothing that needed to be there either. Why add something that doesnīt need to be there? Who cares if there are 4 or if there are 5 slices of cheese on a sandwich?

    WDW needs attention... but not in this way. Hope it bites them.
    My son would ALWAYS vote MORE cheese even if it is only one slice, but he loves cheese. So what your saying is the additions at FL aren't your cup of tea. Why not just say that and never mind the "bashing" that it seems you need to voice. They are NEVER going to make everyone happy, learn to live with it.

    I love what they did at FL, and even though I'm NOT into roller coasters I can't wait to see how that will turn out. I am already planning my next trip to Disney.

    I love how people post here on how Disney decided this, and did that, and why they didn't do this, like they have been sitting in on the meetings at HQ. While some my think CarsLand coming to WDW is an after thought, I tend to think it was planned when they planed DLs version. Who knows what else they plan on doing at DHS with StarWars, and Marvel in the fold. You don't counter Harry Potter by throwing something together and putting it up. You study what effect a franchise has on attendance, and it's staying power. Then you plan out your strategy and THEN execute.

    To me a logical progression would be they built CarsLand and made plans for WDW. CarsLand does well so the plans go ahead. Had CarsLand tanked, you wouldn't see it come to WDW. FL isn't and "addition" like HP land at universal or CarsLand, it's a long over due refurb of the land at MK. It is going to draw the kind of crowds HP land did? heck NO! It isn't suppose to. It's just a refurb!

    Now if and when they add CarsLand to DHS, or AvatarLand, or MarvelWorld, or a StarWars land then you can look for something along the lines of a HP draw.

  14. #89

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusion0fLife View Post
    Whether or not we agree on the inherent quality of New Fantasyland I would hope we'd all realize that New Fantasyland being a flop with Cars Land being a success will send absolutely the wrong message to WDW.

    We've already seen the signs. They're talking about slapping a scaled down version of Cars Land over DHS in response to all of this. If WDW management sees New Fantasyland suffer their immediate response will be "oh well, we tried. Let's just clone some popular attractions from Disneyland."

    Trust me, if New Fantasyland flops really hard no one will end up happy.
    The only new attraction in Fantasyland is a clone of some popular attraction at Disneyland. If we're lucky maybe they'll see it as a sign that clones don't work. However, I've been around these parts long enough to know that we are very rarely lucky.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  15. #90

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    Re: New Fantasyland - Not Getting the Numbers They Expected

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    Itīs not bad... but itīs nothing that needed to be there either. Why add something that doesnīt need to be there? Who cares if there are 4 or if there are 5 slices of cheese on a sandwich?

    WDW needs attention... but not in this way. Hope it bites them.
    I sadly have to agree. New Fantasyland is boring. The past 5 times in the past 2 months I have been to MK I have revisited New Fantasyland 0 times.

    I have been with new Cast Members, family members and solo. And not one person, has indicated they want to visit, see or experience it.

    Once you have seen it you are kind of like "meh, that was ok" and you move on. Unlike the WWOHP where you feel DRAWN to come back and revisit as many times as possible.

    Over that same 2 months period I have have visited IOA 8 times and visited the Wizarding World 8 times.
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