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  1. #16

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    I thought they owned a minority interest in hong kong, the chinese govt. owns most of it.

  2. #17

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmash95
    I thought they owned a minority interest in hong kong, the chinese govt. owns most of it.
    Aha... this is where it gets confusing. Yes, the Chinese government at the end of the day do have a bigger say than Disney, but Disney has been running theme parks for 50 years - Disney would have to do something drastically wrong for the Chinese to step in. The OLC have had coming up to 23 years of running a Disney park, and five years running a 'proper' resort - they don't consult Disney on much these days... they know how Disney works.

    Maybe in a few years after Beijing knows its stuff about Disney, Disney will have a smaller and smaller say in what goes on in the parks, but for the meantime, I think its safe to say they know how to run a Disneyland far better then some Chinese government minister.
    BACKPACKING REALNESS

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    October 2003 - Walt Disney World Resort
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  3. #18

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    For the sake of this, it's safe to say Disney owns all the Disney Resorts except Tokyo Disney Resort. CMs have a maingate that allows them everywhere except Tokyo... Disney owns enough of Euro Disney SCA to say they own Disneyland Resort Paris.

    Also... mike, it's DLRP... not DLPR. Even though you tried to get by with it this time, you sill failed. WU HA HA HA HA. Tricky edit.
    Now Bill, go easy on the boy. Mikey is never wrong.

    But ... the TWDC does indeed run/own DLP, despite the prince's shares etc ...

    And again, this isn't the 50th Anniversary of Disney theme parks no matter how Disney tries to spin things.

    Walt Disney opened one park in 1955. It went by the name Disneyland and was located in Anaheim, Calif. ... He never planned a chain of theme parks. And DL was alone until the MK opened in 1971. Then nothing came until EPCOT Center, which Walt didn't envision as a park, in 1982.

    If Disney is celebrating the anniversary of its theme park chain, it should have giant '34s' everywhere because that's when the second place opened. I realize this may sound absurd, but it's no crazier than celebrating DL's 50th as a worldwide celebration (but only in the USA) of 50 years of Disney theme parks.

    Those execs will try anything to fill all those empty rooms in Orlando.

  4. #19

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    And again, this isn't the 50th Anniversary of Disney theme parks no matter how Disney tries to spin things.
    Okay, this is Disney's company. They make the rules. If they say it is 50 years of Disney theme parks... it is 50 years of Disney theme parks. Disney does not "spin" their own things. It does not matter what you think it is. It does not matter what anyone here thinks it is. What they say it is...it is. When you become CEO of the WDC or buy every share of the WDC you can name the celbration.


    Walt Disney opened one park in 1955. It went by the name Disneyland and was located in Anaheim, Calif. ... He never planned a chain of theme parks. And DL was alone until the MK opened in 1971. Then nothing came until EPCOT Center, which Walt didn't envision as a park, in 1982.
    Somehow, I doubt Walt (ie, Mr. Always Looking Foward) wasn't thinking of ways to expand to new places when he opened Disneyland. But then again, I didn't know the man so I wouldn't know.

    If Disney is celebrating the anniversary of its theme park chain, it should have giant '34s' everywhere because that's when the second place opened.
    Happiest Celebration on Earth: A celebration of 50 years of Disney theme parks.

    Do you see the word "chain" anywhere in there? What you are doing is making up a celebration that does not exist & trying to "spin" it your own way.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  5. #20

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Okay, this is Disney's company. They make the rules. If they say it is 50 years of Disney theme parks... it is 50 years of Disney theme parks. Disney does not "spin" their own things. It does not matter what you think it is. It does not matter what anyone here thinks it is. What they say it is...it is. When you become CEO of the WDC or buy every share of the WDC you can name the celbration.
    Where/why do I begin?

    Yes, Michael, Disney does spin things. Every company does. It's the way businesses run.

    They can certainly call the Happiest Marketing Celebration on Earth, a celebration of 50 years of Disney theme parks. But it is disingenous at best. Disney, both Walt and his company, never intended to have 11 theme parks all over the world when DL opened its gates or even when WDW did. Ultimately, the only thing turning 50 this year (last year now) is Disneyland.

    WDW is latching on to it as a sorry excuse to sell magical vacations. Instead of simply selling WDW and the new attractions that have recently opened, they are trying to mislead people into thinking that WDW is 50. Cindy's Castle had a 25 on it from 10/96 to 2/98, and now it has a 50. What are most people going to think?


    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Somehow, I doubt Walt (ie, Mr. Always Looking Foward) wasn't thinking of ways to expand to new places when he opened Disneyland. But then again, I didn't know the man so I wouldn't know.
    He was looking for new frontiers ... new technologies ... he wasn't interested in building cookie-cutter theme parks all over the globe. That much is certain.

    He did consider building a park in St. Louis that would have been inside a dome ... a completely futuristic idea in the early 60s.

    He wanted to build EPCOT ... as a city ... a showcase of new technologies and American ingenuity. Not a World's Fair type theme park.

    He was against building the MK at first and only did so as a means of building his EPCOT dream.

    I didn't know the man either. But I do know people who did. And I've read extensively.



    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Happiest Celebration on Earth: A celebration of 50 years of Disney theme parks.

    Do you see the word "chain" anywhere in there? What you are doing is making up a celebration that does not exist & trying to "spin" it your own way.

    -Michael
    No, Mikey, that's what Disney's done. Or WDW to be exact ...

  6. #21

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Cindy's Castle had a 25 on it from 10/96 to 2/98, and now it has a 50. What are most people going to think?
    Okay, people did not look at the "25" and say "Hey, WDW is 25 years old." They looked at the big cake castle (with candles and everything) and said "Hey, WDW is 25 years old." This is completely different. There is nothing directly saying "Hey, WDW is 50 years old."

    he wasn't interested in building cookie-cutter theme parks all over the globe. That much is certain.
    Okay, we are talking about one of the most unpredictable persons in the world. Even his own family admitted that even when they thought he was going to do something, he surprised them and did something completely different.

    Now, let's presume for the time being that when he made Disneyland, he had no ideas for future destinations. 1964 comes around and he starts buying land in Florida for Disneyworld. So was that the final destination for him? I honestly don't think so. I think he had plans for many places outside of Disneyland and Disneyworld.

    Now going back to the he-never-planned-a-chain-of-theme-parks... I don't think he woke up one day & decided to buy land in Florida. I'm presuming that the planning/searching took many years. So let's say he started planning for the next "Disneyland" (ie, the begining of a chain) in 1960. So it is my contention that he did indeed have the idea in his head in 1955 that there were going to be more Disneylands (but again, I don't live in his mind, so I could be extremely wrong).

    No, Mikey, that's what Disney's done. Or WDW to be exact ...
    I'm not even going to try anymore with this one.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  7. #22

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Mr. Mikey... you need to learn more about the company. I was once at your stage for a while... then I humbled up and realized that some people know what they're talking about... and many don't. The more you learn, the more you'll get a better picture. But from my point of view, you're not in the place yet where you know enough about how the company works internally. Believe it or not, this celebration was cooked up by marketing for WDW. It's history, and it can't be changed.

    Half the stuff you learn on the internet is false. Even I still get things false, and I'm studying the company as my major at my university. I'm not saying to trust everyone. But from my point of view, we have some experts on certain areas of the company here, and some who think they are, but they don't have the real idea of how everything plays together. The real story behind the story if you will. Some people will learn about something... and they see a wall at a point. Meaning, if they hear something that goes against what they know, they'll dismiss it entirely.

    Take a trip out and realize that as much as you know, someone knows more. The tricky part? Realizing where what you know IS fact and where it's not. The only real facts you can get are historical events and actual physical things. Learn this and know it well, and you will go far. Not just in Disney, but in life.

  8. #23

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    If you look closely at the old Florida Project maps you can see just how disinterested Walt was in building what is today Magic Kingdom Park. Magic Kingdom appears as an EXACT copy of Disneyland. The Florida Project video barely even mentions Magic Kingdom and the whole thing is centered around EPCOT. Look at EPCOT's location. It was almost in the dead center of the property that was going to be developed. Everything was to run in and out of EPCOT. Walt knew people would go to THE (as in one) park, but had the transportation take them right through EPCOT. I don't think WED did this on accident.

  9. #24

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O
    If you look closely at the old Florida Project maps you can see just how disinterested Walt was in building what is today Magic Kingdom Park. Magic Kingdom appears as an EXACT copy of Disneyland. The Florida Project video barely even mentions Magic Kingdom and the whole thing is centered around EPCOT. Look at EPCOT's location. It was almost in the dead center of the property that was going to be developed. Everything was to run in and out of EPCOT. Walt knew people would go to THE (as in one) park, but had the transportation take them right through EPCOT. I don't think WED did this on accident.
    True, but I don't personally think Epcot was a realistic project (and it's clear that Walt was the only person who did).
    -Kyle, Member of the DCA Lovers Alliance
    I'M GOING TO YALE!!!!!!!


  10. #25

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Walt was also the only one who thought Disneyland was a realistic project. Even Lilian doubted Walt's decision to build a park.

  11. #26

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrateslife4me84
    True, but I don't personally think Epcot was a realistic project (and it's clear that Walt was the only person who did).
    Walt made a life out of creating the impossible and doing things no one else had the guts to.

    He was a visionary in every sense of the word.

    I have no idea what would have happened with EPCOT if Walt had lived, even another 5-10 years. But I do think WDW would have continued to evolve as a showcase of creativity and ingenuity vs. a huge hotel and timeshare resort.

  12. #27

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Great post 22, Bill.

  13. #28

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Walt made a life out of creating the impossible and doing things no one else had the guts to.

    He was a visionary in every sense of the word.

    I have no idea what would have happened with EPCOT if Walt had lived, even another 5-10 years. But I do think WDW would have continued to evolve as a showcase of creativity and ingenuity vs. a huge hotel and timeshare resort.
    I am not debating that Walt was a visionary, I just don't think his city of the future would have worked...small pieces of his ideas have been attempted and failed, and those were with more modern technology, not that which was in place in the 60s. I think it would have been a massive failure and we certainly would not have the destination we have today (which, I hope, most of us think has been a worthwhile endeavor for the last 35 years). Not EVERYTHING Walt did worked...most significantly in Tomorrowland, which EPCOT was springboarding off of.
    -Kyle, Member of the DCA Lovers Alliance
    I'M GOING TO YALE!!!!!!!


  14. #29

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Great post 22, Bill.
    Thanks... though you know, after I wrote that, I realized that even some historical events aren't fact... so I guess that isn't always right either. LOL

  15. #30

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    I disagree. Plenty of things were done a whole lot better with older technology (I know this isn't your main point above, but it's a hot button topic with me.)

    We got to the moon just fine in the 60s. Today, we have a space shuttle fleet that can't go beyond earth's orbit and they tend to blow up every 40-50 missions.

    We had supersonic Concordes that could fly to Europe in just a few hours. Now we have 737s that cross the country like busses. You want food? a blankey? what? you think this is freaking first class?

    We had one national phone company monopoly that ensured we had the best communications system in mankind's history. Now you can have three different phone companies (one for local, one long distance, one cell) and none of them can help you when you call them.

    We used to build things in this country. Now we're a service economy.

    Yeah, we have all these cool gadgets and gizmos. Of course,most of them only work when on the display mode in Circuit City or Best Buy. Once you get them home you realize you've been hoodwinked ... the technology isn't ready for the market, but you're stuck. Doesn't work? Call someone ... in India ... with a stage name ... who won't be able to help you one bit.

    Anyway, to get back to Disney ...
    I think WDW was a better QUALITY place in 1986 or 1996 than it is today ... BY FAR!

    I don't know that Walt's Epcot would have been a success, but I also know his city of the future wouldn't be a Celebration either.

    And when Tomorrowland got old, Walt ripped it up entirely and started again. He was always forward-thinking. Look at Tomorrowland now at the MK ... or DL. None of that forward thinking is present ... unless you fear an upcoming attack by the Evil Emperor Zurg (heck, our Prez might convince us that Zurg is on the way!)

    I guess what I'm saying is Disney is just reflecting America in that they've both been dumbed down in the last decade, and that's profoundly sad to me. Because both the USA and Disney used to be about doing the impossible, chasing new frontiers, using new technologies to improve or entertain people etc ... I'm so tired of our current WalMart mentality. And how it's infected WDW!

    Sorry for the rant.

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