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  1. #31

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Well, we do have one thing (related to Disney) that we can agree on...I do think the quality was better 10 years ago, but I relate that more to upkeep of the parks than anything. Namely, Al Weiss doesn't do it. Especially Epcot and the MK need about a year of refurbishing all of the buildings and walkways to get them looking like new...it certainly revitalized Disneyland.
    Last edited by pyrateslife4me84; 01-22-2006 at 07:32 AM.
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  2. #32

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Bingo... upkeep is horrible on the walkways. And the Emporium has cracks in the support beams for cheapsake. Geez.

  3. #33

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    That is what I've been saying the whole time (in the WDW is jealous of DL thread). But when I say it, all I get is "all you are doing is reiterating Disney marketing." The HCoE is indeed a global celebration celebrating 50 years of Disney theme parks.
    Oh Mikey..there you go again, spilling out the same brainwashing the Disney Marketing machine has been making you and the rest of the World believe... But they didn't count on me visiting all the parks often enough to know better...

    Quote Originally Posted by speedway
    Thank god for that! THAT is why Disneyland Park (Paris) kicks the Magic Kingdom's ***.
    Well those of us who have been to DLP and the MK know that for a fact, but poor Mikey doesn't seem to have been outside of the Osceola/Orange county line in his lifetime. Reason why he is narrow minded and quite the Eisner apologist.

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    And yet DLP is in huge financial problems. The Walt Disney Studios Paris (a park just barely larger than DCA) has yet to get 3 million people (in one year) to enter its gates. Although I'm sure DLP is beautiful, I am more than glad that Euro Disney SCA isn't running WDW.
    Mikey, you don't seem to ever understand we are not talking about park traffic. Putting it in Paris was a huge mistake in my opinion, but that's besides the hard facts... when you compare the Mk and DLP on their merits....DLP is a much nicer park, beautiful, updated, and with nicer food and wine in it. The MK is an outdated dud benefiting from better weather/location and a very weak dollar against the euro. As for Euro Disney SCA... didn't they get created after Eisner overbuilt the hotels which was in part what has crashed DLP's chances of survival in addition to the economic crash of the early 90s in Europe?? As for the Paris Studios...it's dying because it simply is a terribly bad and inferior excuse of a studios theme park built by the same cost cutting measures they built DA and HKDL with. TOT won't save it and neither will whoever runs that operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiminycricketfan
    My concern about making this a world wide celebration is it eclipses WDW's 35 anniversary. It will end before Epcot has its 25th anniversary, but I think it would have been better to do a 35/25 celebration for WDW. It could have been much more fun for loyal WDW fans.
    ABSOLUTELY!!! WDW being my local resort (the one I live close to and worked at) I would like that to happen very much, and WDW could use the promotion to keep the numbers high and the interest going... but no. Poor DL was the park getting it's 50th eclipsed by WDW, but mercifully, even their numbers are high even if the glory of it all went to WDW. Oh well... I got TDS' 5th coming up in Sept to keep me entertained, which is a fabulous consolation prize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Mr. Mikey... you need to learn more about the company. I was once at your stage for a while... then I humbled up and realized that some people know what they're talking about... and many don't. The more you learn, the more you'll get a better picture. But from my point of view, you're not in the place yet where you know enough about how the company works internally. Believe it or not, this celebration was cooked up by marketing for WDW. It's history, and it can't be changed.

    Half the stuff you learn on the internet is false. Even I still get things false, and I'm studying the company as my major at my university. I'm not saying to trust everyone. But from my point of view, we have some experts on certain areas of the company here, and some who think they are, but they don't have the real idea of how everything plays together. The real story behind the story if you will. Some people will learn about something... and they see a wall at a point. Meaning, if they hear something that goes against what they know, they'll dismiss it entirely.

    Take a trip out and realize that as much as you know, someone knows more. The tricky part? Realizing where what you know IS fact and where it's not. The only real facts you can get are historical events and actual physical things. Learn this and know it well, and you will go far. Not just in Disney, but in life.
    BRAVO!!! WHOA!!! I nominate Bill as the next CEO of WDC! This young man is savy beyond his years!!! ..and I am proud to say I shook his hand once. I am quite humbled by your post here Bill...truly passionate. AND for the record... count me in as one of those clueless "experts" because I know nothing about the inner workings of the company. I am just a dedicate park fan, and I know all of my Disney parks quite well like the back of my hand ..from what they sell, to the quality of their rides and cleanliness. I bow to you my young friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    upkeep is horrible on the walkways. And the Emporium has cracks in the support beams for cheapsake.
    So very true and terribly saddening for me. Going back to my first visit to the MK in June 1972... the one most significant detail that struck my imagination and made me love the place so much was the very visible attention to cleanliness and dedication to standards, that sadly are no longer enforced at the MK, or even DLP which has become a true offender in this issue. A shame for being the most beautiful DL park of all. Even more frightening to me is when custodial CMs who I have talked to about the slip in cleanliness are quite to point out (quoting here two of them CMs) "management doesn't care", then why should they be proud of their jobs and bother themselves doing the best job they can do???

    Also, this is the reason why I LOVE LOVE LOVE TDL...which in reality is not the most cosmetically appealing MK of them all, but the dedication to cleanliness, maintenance and hard working cast immediately bring back memories of what the MK used to be in it's glory days. Thank to that dedication, TDL today 23 yrs after it opened..still looks as good as it probably did that first year they were in operation... where buildings gleam in brilliantly painted colors, where attractions deliver the good without suffering show prop breakdowns, where shows and parade are E-ticket quality, where cleanliness is held up to a very high standard unlike those imagined by the younger Mikeys of the World, where Disney Magic is as nearly perfect as it can possibly be. Only the Original DL has come quite close to emulate TDL's lead in the capabable hands of Ouimett, but while HKDL still needs to proof itself, DLP and the MK have been allowed to decay badly and stray off course. That's the pain that we dedicated long time Disney fans have to suffer with. ...And how tragic it is that no matter how bad things get, the name "Disney" will keep them coming regardless...or else, how can you explain the MK surge in attendance over nicer DLP, or even over glorious TDL?? Oh I forgot..it's the power of Disney marketing that molds the numbers with their faux World wide celebrations...

    Anyone in the mood for a Magical Gathering at the MK???
    Last edited by TDLFAN; 01-22-2006 at 01:33 AM.

  4. #34

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Yeah, sure. Lets go.
    BACKPACKING REALNESS

    DISNEY TRIPS
    October 2000 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2001 - Walt Disney World Resort
    April 2002 - Disneyland Resort Paris
    October 2003 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2004 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2005 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2007 - Walt Disney World Resort
    December 2008 - Walt Disney World Resort
    July 2009 - Disneyland Resort Paris
    July 2011 - Disneyland Resort California
    July 2012-13 - UK Cultural Representative Cast Member at Epcot
    February 2013 - Disneyland Resort California
    February 2013 -Tokyo Disney Resort

    (VERY OLD!)
    TRIP REPORTS


  5. #35

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Wow TDLFAN, thanks for the kind words...
    Hopefully I'll get even half that far in the company. Ha!

    Anyway, you may just be a "clueless expert" but you do have an eye for noticing what is wrong in the parks from an "upkeep" standpoint. And you've been all over, so you have that extra sense of what it's like around the world at other Disney parks. You're one of the few who knows what it's like on the other side of the fence... too many people here don't. IMHO, you're pretty darn lucky to have that viewpoint. Hardly anyone does. I think one of my old mentors said it best... "Because you've been living at McDonald's for so long, you didn't notice that they built a steakhouse next door." (No offense if you're totally a vegetarian or you love McDonald's more than anything else. lol) And that's the problem most of us have... since we've never been, we have nothing better to compare it to. Anyway, you don't have that issue. But for everyone else here who hasn't seen the other parks, keep in mind that there is something better... you just haven't been shown what it is. And just FYI... there is a way around that travel barrier. Some people can do it, others can't... and I can't really explain it. Call it my trade secret if you will. I've never been to a non-US Disney Park. lol Yet I know what is out there.

  6. #36

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    I've never been to a non-US Disney Park. lol Yet I know what is out there.
    Bill! I will PAY for you to visit Disneyland Resort Paris and see what
    my Disneyland is like with your own eyes. And BTW, if you do, erm, make it up high in the company, just remember your MiceChat friends :P.
    BACKPACKING REALNESS

    DISNEY TRIPS
    October 2000 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2001 - Walt Disney World Resort
    April 2002 - Disneyland Resort Paris
    October 2003 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2004 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2005 - Walt Disney World Resort
    October 2007 - Walt Disney World Resort
    December 2008 - Walt Disney World Resort
    July 2009 - Disneyland Resort Paris
    July 2011 - Disneyland Resort California
    July 2012-13 - UK Cultural Representative Cast Member at Epcot
    February 2013 - Disneyland Resort California
    February 2013 -Tokyo Disney Resort

    (VERY OLD!)
    TRIP REPORTS


  7. #37

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    We got to the moon just fine in the 60s. Today, we have a space shuttle fleet that can't go beyond earth's orbit and they tend to blow up every 40-50 missions.
    And yet we are creating one that can go to Mars and we just sent a rocket to Pluto. We also have 2 robots on Mars (which are still roving the planet). Not to mention other technology today that makes our lives much more enjoyable & convienient.

    None of that forward thinking is present ... unless you fear an upcoming attack by the Evil Emperor Zurg (heck, our Prez might convince us that Zurg is on the way!)
    Tomorrowland is based on the Future that never was & never will be. As far as I'm concerned, Zurg never was & never will be. It is no longer based on the actual "tomorrow" because we have Future World for that.


    Oh Mikey..there you go again, spilling out the same brainwashing the Disney Marketing machine has been making you and the rest of the World believe... But they didn't count on me visiting all the parks often enough to know better...
    Are you being sarcastic or did you not realize you are proving my point?


    Well those of us who have been to DLP and the MK know that for a fact, but poor Mikey doesn't seem to have been outside of the Osceola/Orange county line in his lifetime. Reason why he is narrow minded and quite the Eisner apologist.
    A) Well, if I've never been outside the Orange county line, I guess I don't exist right now (I live in New York).
    B) Do you know what your problem is as well as some other members here (:cough:WDW1974:cough: of course I won't mention any names :cough:WDW1974:cough: )? Whenever someone (in this case me) has a different opinion than you, you write it off as an apologist. Sometimes, you do not get that there is a big difference between fact & opinion. "I, Robot was written by Isaac Asimov" is a fact. "The book I,Robot was better than the movie" is an opinion. "Disney used to be better" is an opinion also. So maybe one day, you'll finally stop telling me to listen & you'll listen for yourself. As I've said before (I believe in the largest font there is ), I am not an apologist, these are my opinions.

    when you compare the Mk and DLP on their merits....DLP is a much nicer park, beautiful, updated, and with nicer food and wine in it.
    And we're back to the whole fact/opinion line. This is your opinion, not a fact.

    As for Euro Disney SCA... didn't they get created after Eisner overbuilt the hotels which was in part what has crashed DLP's chances of survival in addition to the economic crash of the early 90s in Europe??
    EuroDisney SCA was created in 1989.

    TOT won't save it and neither will whoever runs that operation.
    How do you know? For DMGM, all it took was ToT.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  8. #38

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    I live in New york
    Well...*that* explains a lot!!! LOL!!!
    And Mikey...if your opinions made logical sense to me in light of the big picture, then I would stop and think...hey maybe he does have a point or two. But you only seem to maipulate logic to explain the blunders Disney has made in the past decade or so. Problem is.. I always seem to find a loop hole in there somewhere that raises a flag and tells me you only know what *you* want to see. Reason why I call you an Apologist...and it's meant in the fun sense of debate. Likewise, I am an apologist for TDR because at least I can really see how much better that operation runs over WDW's...but you will have to do the Disney traveling I do to see that. And for the record...I will be the first one to admit that even OLC has been slipping a bit lately in some areas I concider "sacred" in regards to the Disney Legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    How do you know(TOT won't fix WDSP)? For DMGM, all it took was ToT
    No, I don't know that for a fact, and even using the Witches' crystal ball, the future there is still fuzzy at the very least... No one more than me would like to see DLRP get up on it's legs and run with it, as no other Disney resort deserves better. But my experience with DLRP in the past 13 years tells me..."NO", TOT won't fix the WDSP, because that place as it is right now in nowhere as decent as MGM was when they premiered the TOT in the early 90s. Maybe once their Toon Studios is up and running, it will give guests a reason to visit there and stay for the day instead of hopping over to DLP for the rest of the afternoon... Then look how much TOT has done for DCA....which is absolutely NOTHING! The attendance numbers at DCA are simply bad. We'll see if the Monsters, Inc ride does give that park a needed boost... But let me tell you...I still choose DCA's more fully realized themes over anemic WDSP's concrete and cardboard feel.

  9. #39

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedway
    Bill! I will PAY for you to visit Disneyland Resort Paris and see what
    my Disneyland is like with your own eyes. And BTW, if you do, erm, make it up high in the company, just remember your MiceChat friends :P.
    Hey, I'm not Bill ... but I like him. And I'm going to DLP for the first time in May ... Wanna pay for my trip?!?!??!

  10. #40

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Tomorrowland is based on the Future that never was & never will be. As far as I'm concerned, Zurg never was & never will be. It is no longer based on the actual "tomorrow" because we have Future World for that.
    Well, actually we don't. FW originally was supposed to be representative of the future, but that cost too much. So now we have some future (Living With the Land), some science with Nemo and pals, a remnant of the original EC with SSE, an Ellenized Energy pavillion, a simulator to take you to Mars, a home electronics show in Innoventions and a pavillion dedicated to Imagination that doesn't show any.

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    A) Well, if I've never been outside the Orange county line, I guess I don't exist right now (I live in New York).
    B) Do you know what your problem is as well as some other members here (:cough:WDW1974:cough: of course I won't mention any names :cough:WDW1974:cough: )? Whenever someone (in this case me) has a different opinion than you, you write it off as an apologist. Sometimes, you do not get that there is a big difference between fact & opinion. "I, Robot was written by Isaac Asimov" is a fact. "The book I,Robot was better than the movie" is an opinion. "Disney used to be better" is an opinion also. So maybe one day, you'll finally stop telling me to listen & you'll listen for yourself. As I've said before (I believe in the largest font there is ), I am not an apologist, these are my opinions.
    But your opinions sound like they were puked up by a Disney publicist. You also have a 'I know it all' attitude, which isn't the most endearing. If someone says that the attractions at DLP are updated, modernized, more thought-out versions of what you know at the MK, that's not really opinion. Read books, read interviews with Imagineers, hell, read old WDC Annual Reports where your old hero Michael Eisner wrote the same things.

    You might be taken more seriously here if you could understand that some people might know more FACTS about Disney than you do. They might have more real-life EXPERIENCES that give their opinions more weight than a 17-year-old who has only gone to WDW during summer vacation. And I am not trying to denigrate you. I have loads of respect for your intelligence and passion. I just wish you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss other viewpoints that contradict your 'World' view.

    And do get that cough checked. You're likely not getting enough sleep (too much Internet time) and you're gonna get all rundown and sick. We don't want that, do we?

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    How do you know? For DMGM, all it took was ToT.

    -Michael

    Mikey, you are wrong. Check your history. ToT was added to MGM because the park was very popular, yet didn't have enough offerings for visitors. The situation in Paris is completely different. No one goes to the park.

  11. #41

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Sorry, double-posted.

    Moved to E-Ticket thread.
    Last edited by WDW1974; 01-22-2006 at 10:46 PM.

  12. #42

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    Re: OK then... so what if the HCOE truly was a 'worldwide' celebration?

    Well, actually we don't. FW originally was supposed to be representative of the future, but that cost too much. So now we have some future (Living With the Land), some science with Nemo and pals, a remnant of the original EC with SSE, an Ellenized Energy pavillion, a simulator to take you to Mars, a home electronics show in Innoventions and a pavillion dedicated to Imagination that doesn't show any.
    And you just went around my statement completely. Future World (whether you like it or not) shows the actual future (in some sense) in every pavilion.
    Ellen's Energy Adventure- shows us the future of our energy consumption
    Mission:Space- prepares us for the first manned mission to Mars (which is indeed in the future).
    Test Track- The actual ride stays more in the present, but the postshow shows us the car technology of the future (including the fuel cell)
    Imagination- "Future" is a stretch here, but it is no less future than the original JII.
    The Land- Living with the Land shows us new methods of farming & future ways to "live with the land." TCoL also shows us the future if we do not care about the environment.
    The Living Seas- I haven't been there since the remodel, so I don't know what they have inside besides Crush
    SSE- Future of communication
    Innoventions- Self explanitory

    You also have a 'I know it all' attitude, which isn't the most endearing.


    If someone says that the attractions at DLP are updated, modernized, more thought-out versions of what you know at the MK, that's not really opinion.
    Updated: FACT (when used in the sense Space Mountain 2 vs Space Mountain)
    Modernized: FACT
    More Thought-Out: OPINION. Just because one person thinks it's more thought-out, does not mean everyone else does.

    Mikey, you are wrong. Check your history. ToT was added to MGM because the park was very popular, yet didn't have enough offerings for visitors. The situation in Paris is completely different. No one goes to the park.
    For the first 3 years, DMGM held at a steady 8 million. The moment ToT was put in, DMGM's attendance Sky-Rocketed 1.5 million, and a year later reaching 10.6 million. So although the park's attendance wasn't bad before ToT, the ride helped greatly improve attendance. So although the variables are different in Paris, I can easily see ToT greatly improving WDSP's attendance. Combined with the new Toontown, I think it can go up 1-3 million people.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

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