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  1. #1

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    Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    I honestly don't get what they were trying to accomplish in respect to this "rolling" expansion. I know you have to cut through the corporate speak but as a DL regular back from 8 days at WDW I was VERY underwhelmed by the expansion. Belle's que was horrible 20 minutes after opening and the last thing I wanted to spend precious morning minutes in was a LONG line; Mermaid was a great que but the same ride as DCA and Dumbo is...well Dumbo. Having the Snow White mine ride construction zone right in the middle of it all just make it largely uninviting to really want to spend a bunch of time there. What was their stated rational for doing it this way?

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    The Mine ride was a last minute change in plans for the New Fantasyland which is why it's so far behind the rest of the project.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdshiftCM View Post
    The Mine ride was a last minute change in plans for the New Fantasyland which is why it's so far behind the rest of the project.
    This. However, Storybook Circus was opened long before Fantasyland Forest which was a mistake. Opening it sooner took away a lot of the wow factor (if New Fantasyland even had any).
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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Because the expansion seemed to appeal mostly to the female demographic. So they put on their "thinking caps" and said, "Hey let's put a D-Ticket coaster where Pixie Hollow was supposed to go".
    "Like what?"
    "How about the Seven Dwarves?"
    "But we already have a Snow White attraction, it's a classic."
    "Close it and put the left over princesses in there, nobody will miss it."
    "You my friend are a genius!"
    "Thank you, by the way, the names Staggs, Tom Staggs."


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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVader View Post
    Because the expansion seemed to appeal mostly to the female demographic. So they put on their "thinking caps" and said, "Hey let's put a D-Ticket coaster where Pixie Hollow was supposed to go".
    "Like what?"
    "How about the Seven Dwarves?"
    "But we already have a Snow White attraction, it's a classic."
    "Close it and put the left over princesses in there, nobody will miss it."
    "You my friend are a genius!"
    "Thank you, by the way, the names Staggs, Tom Staggs."
    Umm, no...

    This is what actually happened:

    "So, what is all this stuff in the middle of the land?"
    "Themed meet and greets for Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty"
    "So, there's no rides here? How much are we spending on this?"
    "Yeah, no rides, but it's only going to be about 30 million dollars. Plus we're closing Snow White's Scary Adventures to put the other princess meet and greets in there too."
    "I have two boys, I think we have enough Princess stuff, and this has too many meet and greets and not enough actual rides, thank you very much. Let's build an actual ride there instead."
    "Well, we were planning to build a Seven Dwarfs Roller Coaster there before Jay axed it."
    "Let's go back to that coaster."
    "Okay."
    -Bill

  6. #6

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Umm, no...

    This is what actually happened:

    "So, what is all this stuff in the middle of the land?"
    "Themed meet and greets for Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty"
    "So, there's no rides here? How much are we spending on this?"
    "Yeah, no rides, but it's only going to be about 30 million dollars. Plus we're closing Snow White's Scary Adventures to put the other princess meet and greets in there too."
    "I have two boys, I think we have enough Princess stuff, and this has too many meet and greets and not enough actual rides, thank you very much. Let's build an actual ride there instead."
    "Well, we were planning to build a Seven Dwarfs Roller Coaster there before Jay axed it."
    "Let's go back to that coaster."
    "Okay."
    its actually more like the first one, they were never going to close snow whites scary adventures prior to the addition of the dwarf coaster. the princess hall meet and greet is the replacement of the more spread out meet and greet plans from the original concept and the dwarf coaster is the replacement for snow white's scary adventures.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    its actually more like the first one, they were never going to close snow whites scary adventures prior to the addition of the dwarf coaster. the princess hall meet and greet is the replacement of the more spread out meet and greet plans from the original concept and the dwarf coaster is the replacement for snow white's scary adventures.
    You actually are referring to yet another different incarnation of Fantasyland we almost got. I'm not wrong... but you are correct that there is in fact a different version that would have kept Snow White.

    In fact, I know of 5 different versions of Fantasyland that were in the works before we got what we have.

    And FYI, the ORIGINAL plans had the coaster. Rasulo took it out. Staggs put it back.
    -Bill

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandiegomousefan View Post
    I honestly don't get what they were trying to accomplish in respect to this "rolling" expansion. I know you have to cut through the corporate speak but as a DL regular back from 8 days at WDW I was VERY underwhelmed by the expansion. Belle's que was horrible 20 minutes after opening and the last thing I wanted to spend precious morning minutes in was a LONG line; Mermaid was a great que but the same ride as DCA and Dumbo is...well Dumbo. Having the Snow White mine ride construction zone right in the middle of it all just make it largely uninviting to really want to spend a bunch of time there. What was their stated rational for doing it this way?
    It's done to make people make multiple visits. People would have come to see Storybook Circus. Then again to see Belle and Ariel, then they'll make a third visit to see the Dwarf's coaster.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by ssaamm View Post
    It's done to make people make multiple visits. People would have come to see Storybook Circus. Then again to see Belle and Ariel, then they'll make a third visit to see the Dwarf's coaster.
    Nah, not this time.

    That's why Universal does things the way they do. Disney, at least in Florida, eh, not so much.
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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    You actually are referring to yet another different incarnation of Fantasyland we almost got. I'm not wrong... but you are correct that there is in fact a different version that would have kept Snow White.

    In fact, I know of 5 different versions of Fantasyland that were in the works before we got what we have.

    And FYI, the ORIGINAL plans had the coaster. Rasulo took it out. Staggs put it back.
    correct, however there was no incarnation of the plans to my knowledge that would have princess meet and greets across from princess meet and greets with the closing of an attraction and no replacement for it as you suggested above. regardless we are arguing semantics, the fact is we ended up with what we've got now and its certainly better then some of the things we could have had instead, although admittedly certainly not a perfect scenario.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Now, I don't know if this factored into their planning, but Old Fantasyland had become a cramped traffic jam. Opening New Fantasyland, even before all of the attractions were ready, has eased that situation. So even if that's not what they intended, it has been a positive result.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    Now, I don't know if this factored into their planning, but Old Fantasyland had become a cramped traffic jam. Opening New Fantasyland, even before all of the attractions were ready, has eased that situation. So even if that's not what they intended, it has been a positive result.
    Yeah, for their wallets.


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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Fantasyland is still stroller parking hell.
    -Bill

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    This. However, Storybook Circus was opened long before Fantasyland Forest which was a mistake. Opening it sooner took away a lot of the wow factor (if New Fantasyland even had any).
    The lack of capacity in the Magic Kingdom during peak season hurts the park...Storybook Circus was opened in phases because they needed any little bit of capacity.

    But opening "it sooner" isn't what took away a lot of NFE's "wow factor". If NFE was going to wow us it would be wowoing us regardless of if it opened in phases or not.

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    Re: Can someone explain the thinking behind the "Phased" expansion of Fantasyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by tloolgb View Post
    The lack of capacity in the Magic Kingdom during peak season hurts the park...Storybook Circus was opened in phases because they needed any little bit of capacity.

    But opening "it sooner" isn't what took away a lot of NFE's "wow factor". If NFE was going to wow us it would be wowoing us regardless of if it opened in phases or not.
    Yeah it's always going to be a battle between imagineering and operations, but from a hype standpoint it killed it. I agree though, TDO's reluctants to spend money on actual rides was the main cause for the lack of wow. The really sad part is, like you stated, the park needs capacity for peak season but the added capacity from the expansion is no where nearly enough to soak up the crowds (as is evident by the ridiculous lines for TLM). All in all FLE is beatiful but that's about it.
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