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  1. #16

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by EC82 View Post
    It's an absolute shame to see how Disney puts no actual thought into planning how to move people around its otherwise immaculately designed property. Or at least, immaculately designed to a point: Now, they're basically just carving up the land, selling it off, letting others come in and develop, and being incredibly haphazard with it. The whole thing has just devolved more or less into chaos from the brilliantly conceived and executed ideas that existed from 1968 to 2003 or so. But increasingly, it's all just one big jumbled mess that no urban planner on Earth would actually look to Disney for ideas today.

    They've gone from absolute innovators with no competition to absolute competitors trying to cater to the whims of the public.
    They'll eventually run into a problem, a bus is not a solution to everything but who's going to say that to the current management team which has a limited long therm vision?
    Quote Originally Posted by robbiem View Post
    Here in London the 'tubes' have fabric seats and that works fine but we certainly don't have carpet!
    Sorry to go off topic again but the Underground doesn't exactly have this problem:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/us...pagewanted=all
    Don't mean to hate on BART but I'm glad they're finally buying some new rolling stock and replacing the seats with some vinyl ones.

  2. #17

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    I don't think "they" (at Disney) don't think of the transportation issues. I think they do, but the ones they have and maintain are most likely the most cost effective options they have now. Sure they could build other types of transport, but the cost would be high and recouping that money would take a long time and so is set on a back burner.

    What if they created/bought their own coach building company. They could build/design buses that could fit the themes of the various parks/resorts. While it would still be a bus why couldn't it look like a safari bus, or a cartoon bus, some futuristic versions of a bus,maybe even a short "monorail" on wheels. A simple thing that may help with the "immersion" factor, but again, what are the costs?

  3. #18

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    What if they created/bought their own coach building company. They could build/design buses that could fit the themes of the various parks/resorts. While it would still be a bus why couldn't it look like a safari bus, or a cartoon bus, some futuristic versions of a bus,maybe even a short "monorail" on wheels. A simple thing that may help with the "immersion" factor, but again, what are the costs?
    Couldn't that just be achieved with lots of decals?

  4. #19

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    I think Disney could do alot better than the bus system they have now. They should be cutting edge! Its a shame they didnt build the streets to have a trolley system. I dont think it would be ideal to have an underground in Florida. I think they should have electric buses.

  5. #20

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    An underground subway system is hard to do in Florida with the water table being a few feet below the surface in most places.

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  6. #21

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    An underground subway system is hard to do in Florida with the water table being a few feet below the surface in most places.
    Hasn't the King of the Swamp thought you anything about building in swampland?

  7. #22

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by BandM View Post
    Couldn't that just be achieved with lots of decals?
    No, a decal is what they use now. I was thinking more along the lines of this.

    Name:  bus_zps7cc2450a.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  118.2 KB

    A quick photoshop, but wouldn't it be more fun to ride a "monorail" to your next stop? Picture covered wagon themes for frontier land, whimsical ones for MK, futuristic ones for EPCOT, safari ones for AK.

    They will still be buses, but it would be a bit more fun trying to ride them all, of try to figure out "which" was coming to pick YOU up!

  8. #23

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    I'd rather ride monorails and steam trains than buses made to look like monorails and steam trains.

    40 years ago Disney could have just used buses. It would have worked just as well. It would have been cheaper up front. They could have only used buses then for all the same excuses you hear for why they pretty much only use buses now. They didn't because they knew that boats and monorails were more fun. The Disney of 40 plus years ago also had much less money to spend on such extravagances than they do now, but they spent it anyway. Instead of making excuses that it wasn't cost effective or that it could be years before the energy savings balanced out the upfront costs they went for the better solution not only because they were working on a long term model instead of the quarterly profit model, but also because they knew that the guests would appreciate the effort.

    The company now is more profitable than ever. They could afford to expand the monorail to the other 4 parks and Downtown Disney and Iger wouldn't even have to mortgage one of his homes. They could even offset the cost of the entire project with a single hit film. They won't and they have lots of fancy corporate buzz words to explain why it's a bad idea, but the fact remains that the guests still do appreciate the effort. The reason attendance and guest satisfaction is dropping is not because their marketing sticks (though that is true) it's because they aren't putting in the effort anymore.

    People remember when Walt Disney Productions did a lot more when they had a lot less. They remember when they put the thought and money into making a highly detailed experience. They remember when the company was innovating both creatively and technically. Now they just see rides that are 3rd grade book reports of movies they already own and a company that only seems interested in getting the guest to hand over their wallets the instant they check into the hotel.

    The company's primary method of advertising in those old days was word of mouth, which is also part of what you pay for when you put in the extra money to build something great that people want to tell their friends back home about. They didn't need to hire advertisers to make up a new slogan to celebrate and print up new shirts every year. People didn't need to be suckered into going to Walt Disney World. They went because it was there, and it was great, and there was probably something new put in since the last time they were there.

    All these cost effective things, the profit boosting shortcuts, the 3rd party vendors, the aggressive marketing, the buses, were all things Disney could have done from the beginning, but if they did, I doubt they would have fans that care enough about it to make boards like this.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  9. #24

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Marketing WDW I can completely understand, as frustratingly unimaginative as Disney marketing can be. (You'd think the undisputed leader in storytelling could put together a decent 30sec spot.)


    What I've never understood is why that marketing now has to have a firm and noticeable presence inside the parks. "Let the Memories Begin" isn't a terrible idea, but why did the MK Mickey floral need to be surrounded by it? "Celebrate Today" wasn't a terrible idea either, but why did Disneyland's Town Square need that horrific balloon tree? Why did "Year of a Million Dreams" need signs every few feet, monorail wraps, characters in blue/white only, etc? Why? Isn't the point of marketing your resort to bring people there? Once they're there, why keep marketing the resorts to them especially when said excessive marketing detracts from the look of the resorts?


    That said, advertising movies anywhere on property, including a monorail wrap, is self-explanatory. Most attractions are movie-based for the same reason. Disney doesn't have to pay a cent for the exposure, and still reaps all the benefits at the box office.

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  10. #25

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    There is a big difference between building in a metropolitan area and in what amounts to reclaimed swamp. As I understand it, the current building standards require much more in the way of foundation work (AKA: tons more concrete) as well as access roads along the entire length (except over water, etc.) to evacuate the cars in an emergency (stuck, fire, etc.). But if they really wanted to do it they would. I donít think itís a conspiracy with anyone. The Magical Express is hated by non-Disney ventures (car rental, shuttle bus, retail stores, etc.). Disney designed this "benefit" to remove the opportunity for guests to leave the property and spend money anywhere else.
    Leonard
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  11. #26

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by disney_leonard View Post
    There is a big difference between building in a metropolitan area and in what amounts to reclaimed swamp. As I understand it, the current building standards require much more in the way of foundation work (AKA: tons more concrete) as well as access roads along the entire length (except over water, etc.) to evacuate the cars in an emergency (stuck, fire, etc.). But if they really wanted to do it they would. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy with anyone. The Magical Express is hated by non-Disney ventures (car rental, shuttle bus, retail stores, etc.). Disney designed this "benefit" to remove the opportunity for guests to leave the property and spend money anywhere else.
    All Monorail beams over land at WDW just has to have "stable" land for emergency vehicles so they don't get stuck, even in poor weather. Paved roads are not required. Over water Disney could add catwalks between the beams like on the Las Vegas Monorail for double beam sections which are almost invisible. Catwalks on single beam sections are a bit ugly, at least for this first installation in Vegas.

    Here is a picture with catwalks for both double beam sections and single beam at a split for a station. Notice no ugly railings on the double section.
    Name:  LVM%u00252520100_0583.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  160.9 KB

    I think Magaical Express is great for guests in reducing "Vacation Hassle", and truly Marketing genius. I think it's a major key to maintaining market share against Universal with their new attractions. Darn them for spending big bucks for great attractions!
    Last edited by Timon; 04-19-2013 at 11:45 AM.

  12. #27

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    It was a senior cast member who told me about the new requirements for construction and emergency access. She made it clear that it was her understanding that they could not build the monorail system as it is today. The existing system was built under the codes at the time. Also, I just came back from the Lunch with an Imagineer program. A similar question was asked about connecting the other resorts and parks by extending the monorail. His answer was that they could not add more lines to the TTC so they would have to build another hub someplace. That would mean transferring from one line to another. Add the high cost and it just wouldn't be worth it. But if someone like Bob Iger wanted it, they would find a way.
    Leonard
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  13. #28

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    No, a decal is what they use now. I was thinking more along the lines of this.

    Name:  bus_zps7cc2450a.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  118.2 KB

    A quick photoshop, but wouldn't it be more fun to ride a "monorail" to your next stop? Picture covered wagon themes for frontier land, whimsical ones for MK, futuristic ones for EPCOT, safari ones for AK.

    They will still be buses, but it would be a bit more fun trying to ride them all, of try to figure out "which" was coming to pick YOU up!

  14. #29

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I'd rather ride monorails and steam trains than buses made to look like monorails and steam trains.
    Fair enough, fake 'trolleys' that are really just buses annoy me.

  15. #30

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    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by disney_leonard View Post
    . But if someone like Bob Iger wanted it, they would find a way.
    This is the root of the problem and not just Iger but Eisner, too. If they believed in it, it would happen.

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