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  1. #46

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    There's a rumor on another site that they might announce a Carsland clone for WDW at D23 this summer.

    Can we say disappointing? Why do I have the bad feeling that Disney made duplicate sets and props from when they constructed Carsland at DCA so that they could easily and cheaply clone it at WDW if need be? I can't tell you how depressing this news is if it turns out to be true. Not only will this diminish the crown jewel of DCA (a park that badly needed one in some form) but this will only show how wasteful Disney spends their money. This project is estimated to cost around $500million where the purchasing of Marvel and Star Wars were each at least a billion.

    Also if the other rumors are true that a Star Wars land will be built in DLP instead of here in the states, my question is why? I know that SW has a fan base in France but wouldn't it make sense to have the land in America were you are guaranteed to get the most in attendance and sales?
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  2. #47

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jspider View Post
    Eh I'm probably being circular I'll just say that uniqueness and quality is what wins the day and that its my belief that Disney is unmotivated to build a potter swatter though if one were to be constructed I'd probably prefer for it not to be a franchise I've had beaten over my head too much.
    So much of what you stated is true, IMO and unfortunately the reason why I stated what I did as well. I don't believe Disney is interested in anything but going down the safe path anymore. Whatever keeps the shareholders happy. I think there was a misguided but admirable attempt at something new and innovative in getting the rights to Avatar, but we all see where that is going...nowhere, and probably rightfully so.

    Not only is there no Potter Swatter coming, it is my belief that Disney does not even see that anything of the sort is necessary.

  3. #48

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    the fact is they can't sell wands or chocolate frogs without the intellectual property. You were right in pointing out that generic Universal merchandiise doesn't sell as well as Potter stuff.
    Theme parks are a business. Selling Potter is a GUARANTEED way to make money. They know this.

    What sells more? A T-shirt that says 'Space Mountain' on it, or a Harry Potter outfit? Yeah, thought so.
    Sure you can. Magic wands existed long before Harry Potter and they will exist long after. A quick Google search yields a pretty big variety of them, almost none of which are official Potter merchandise. As for Chocolate Frogs, all you need is a frog shaped mold, but that's besides the point that the merchandise doesn't matter. What Universal did with those stores was make the entire shopping experience unique. It's pretty much the entire business model for Build-A-Bear. You can buy a 18" teddy bear pretty much anywhere, yet they turn it into an experience and that strategy seems to be working pretty well for them.

    If Potter is guaranteed to sell, why don't they sell it at every store? If the goal is to make the most money that certainly seems like the smart way to do it. They don't because selling a sorting hat in Jurassic Park doesn't make any sense, just like buying a Hollywood Tower Hotel bathrobe in Tomorrowland doesn't make any sense.

    There are people out there that will buy a shirt because it says Harry Potter on it. There are also people that won't by a shirt because it says Harry potter on it. I don't think the fact that something is tied into a movie makes it sell any better or worse than anything else. I think people are more likely to buy a non movie based film with a good design than a movie character shirt with a bad design. I remember seeing an interview when Disney animation had released a string of bombs Roy E. Disney was asked if he thought people didn't want to see hand drawn animated movies anymore. His answer was, "I'm sure they'd love to see a good one." I think this is kind of the same thing. IPs are safe because they have a built in market of people who will buy anything with that IP on it, but you aren't doing yourself any favors if you only put the IPs name on garbage.

    On the flip side, original concepts are a little riskier in the beginning but if you make that initial thing great, you can tie in all the merchandise that goes along with it and you don't have to pay anybody royalties. Look at Pirates of the Caribbean and tell me that original concepts can't hold up as well as ones based on movies. Do the plastic sword with Jack Sparrow's head on the tag sell better than the ones they sold before he came along, or is just being a pirate sword good enough for a kid that just got off the ride?

    It seems like across all entertainment nobody wants to take any risks anymore. Even most movies are either remakes or based on a book, an old tv show, or the occasional play for those high brow flicks. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that theme parks are any different. The only people who seem to be willing to try something new are authors. Probably because it literally costs nothing other than time to write a book. I'm sure there are also many authors who only write books to have them turned into movies. The sad thing is that the Asian parks keep showing that Imagineering can still do some really amazing stuff when it's let loose. I just don't get why none of the parks in the US want to give them a shot.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  4. #49

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    Sure you can. Magic wands existed long before Harry Potter and they will exist long after. A quick Google search yields a pretty big variety of them, almost none of which are official Potter merchandise. As for Chocolate Frogs, all you need is a frog shaped mold, but that's besides the point that the merchandise doesn't matter.
    Again, this just proves my point. Why are Harry Potter wands selling so well when there is a 'big variety' of them available upon a simple Google search? It's BECAUSE of the IP. You don't see magic fairy wands at Disney selling like the Harry Potter ones. The IP is what sells. Maybe I'm missing your point but it seems to me like you understand perfectly well why the IP's are more attractive to theme parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    If Potter is guaranteed to sell, why don't they sell it at every store? If the goal is to make the most money that certainly seems like the smart way to do it. They don't because selling a sorting hat in Jurassic Park doesn't make any sense, just like buying a Hollywood Tower Hotel bathrobe in Tomorrowland doesn't make any sense.
    This is irrelevant. JK Rowling won't let Universal sell HP merchandise outside of its designated area (only relatively generic stuff can be found in Citywalk stores and stores in the front of the park). Plus, it doesn't tie into the themes of the rest of the park. We aren't discussing that though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    There are people out there that will buy a shirt because it says Harry Potter on it. There are also people that won't by a shirt because it says Harry potter on it. I don't think the fact that something is tied into a movie makes it sell any better or worse than anything else.
    Oh, it most certainly does. Sure, there are people who won't buy Harry Potter shirts but there are many more who will buy shirts just for Harry Potter, and maybe couldn't even care less about Universal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I think people are more likely to buy a non movie based film with a good design than a movie character shirt with a bad design. I remember seeing an interview when Disney animation had released a string of bombs Roy E. Disney was asked if he thought people didn't want to see hand drawn animated movies anymore. His answer was, "I'm sure they'd love to see a good one." I think this is kind of the same thing. IPs are safe because they have a built in market of people who will buy anything with that IP on it, but you aren't doing yourself any favors if you only put the IPs name on garbage.
    Carsland is a perfect example of quality based on a franchise. Is Carsland garbage? Absolutely not. Is it based on an IP? Yes. Are people flocking to it? Most definitely. Is it because of the Cars characters? You bet it is--what's funner to buy, a generic toy car, or a toy Lightning McQueen? To the under-12 audience you'd sell a toy car to, Lightning McQueen is definitely the superior option, again, only possible by utilizing an IP.


    Look, I'm not disagreeing with you in that you think originality is better. I'd much rather see more originality in the parks. But you're kidding yourself if you think there's any way that IP's aren't more beneficial to parks, financially. Sure, there's lots more originality overseas, but there's also less of a market for American films and mass media over there. In America, tie-ins resonate with people and it shows.

  5. #50

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post

    Carsland is a perfect example of quality based on a franchise. Is Carsland garbage? Absolutely not. Is it based on an IP? Yes. Are people flocking to it? Most definitely. Is it because of the Cars characters? You bet it is
    Or maybe people got word, that Carsland is a richly detailed land, with a high quality E Ticket ride ... not far from the ambition and scale as projects dating back to, when Walt was alive.


    So to reiterate -
    "Are people flocking to it?" That would be a "yes."
    "Is it because of the Cars characters?" To get an honest answer - you have to conduct a poll to people exiting the land.
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  6. #51

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Harry Potter has a far longer lifespan than Twilight and the two should not ever be compared. I believe in time when society thinks of wizards they will associate with Harry Potter, similar to how elves are associated with The Lord of the Rings due to the rich tapestry that both series used to create their worlds. I will be surprised if a any other wizarding story actual does outdo HP because I think the possibility of that is pretty low. I am a fan of the books. The movies were okay but I hated David Yates direction with the last four films.
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  7. #52

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Or maybe people got word, that Carsland is a richly detailed land, with a high quality E Ticket ride ... not far from the ambition and scale as projects dating back to, when Walt was alive.


    So to reiterate -
    "Are people flocking to it?" That would be a "yes."
    "Is it because of the Cars characters?" To get an honest answer - you have to conduct a poll to people exiting the land.
    Where exactly would people be getting this information that it's a "richly detailed land"? Do the commercials and ads for it stress a large attention to detail and immersion? Or do they focus on the characters from the film?

    Besides die-hard theme park fans and members of discussion boards like these, I doubt most people hear about how great the land is. They may hear the ride is fun, but their attention is grabbed by Lightning McQueen on the billboard. There have been many, many richly detailed ORIGINAL attractions put in Disneyland, but have any of them drawn in the same amount of people as Carsland? The answer to that is no and I don't think that's a coincidence.

    By the way, it's interesting to note that one of the reasons of DCA's original failure was reportedly a lack of Disney characters, and implementation of more franchises was a key factor in its successful makeover.

  8. #53

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Where exactly would people be getting this information that it's a "richly detailed land"? Do the commercials and ads for it stress a large attention to detail and immersion? Or do they focus on the characters from the film?
    I think what the advertisements, marketing, commercials show about Carsland is that it is larger than life.

    Whether it is Vegas, the Sears Tower, the Empire State Building, the Space Needle, people want to feel something larger than themselves, and theme parks offer escapism and when you marry that escapism with the feeling of something larger than life it has great appeal.

    That is the main reason why I actually think Carsland is successful. It was why Epcot was successful. It was why WDW was successful for a long time and continues to be.
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  9. #54

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    I think what the advertisements, marketing, commercials show about Carsland is that it is larger than life.

    Whether it is Vegas, the Sears Tower, the Empire State Building, the Space Needle, people want to feel something larger than themselves, and theme parks offer escapism and when you marry that escapism with the feeling of something larger than life it has great appeal.

    That is the main reason why I actually think Carsland is successful. It was why Epcot was successful. It was why WDW was successful for a long time and continues to be.
    Advertisements can make anything seem larger than life. It's not about people's reactions or giving them what they want, the key is capturing their attention in the first place. I've dabbled quite a bit in advertising, so believe me when I say it's not quite that simple.

  10. #55

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Again, this just proves my point. Why are Harry Potter wands selling so well when there is a 'big variety' of them available upon a simple Google search? It's BECAUSE of the IP. You don't see magic fairy wands at Disney selling like the Harry Potter ones. The IP is what sells. Maybe I'm missing your point but it seems to me like you understand perfectly well why the IP's are more attractive to theme parks.
    You did miss my point. I'll post it again and emphasize the part that seems to be getting by you. Sure you can. Magic wands existed long before Harry Potter and they will exist long after. A quick Google search yields a pretty big variety of them, almost none of which are official Potter merchandise. The IP is unnecessary.

    Lilo and Stitch is a perfect example. Stitch is a very popular character, but Stitch's Great Escape is possibly the least popular attraction currently in operation at a Disney park. Alien Encounter by comparison had generic aliens with no movie tie in and still has fans a decade after it closed.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #56

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    They should build Carsland in WDW, but make it bigger, possibly even it's own park. WDW has so much land in FL they could put 4 new parks in, no problem.

  12. #57

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    You did miss my point. I'll post it again and emphasize the part that seems to be getting by you. Sure you can. Magic wands existed long before Harry Potter and they will exist long after. A quick Google search yields a pretty big variety of them, almost none of which are official Potter merchandise. The IP is unnecessary.
    But those wands are not selling like Harry Potter wands are! The IP is absolutely necessary to make a dent in this wand market you're talking about. An IP is necessary to sell otherwise ordinary things, because the property it ties into resonates with the people who would purchase it. That's why IP's are important to theme parks.

  13. #58

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    But those wands are not selling like Harry Potter wands are! The IP is absolutely necessary to make a dent in this wand market you're talking about. An IP is necessary to sell otherwise ordinary things, because the property it ties into resonates with the people who would purchase it. That's why IP's are important to theme parks.
    Aren't they?

    Intellectual Properties hold the same value to a theme park as a sequel or a remake hold to a film studio. You hope it does as well as the original, but there are no guarantees. This is why a lot of sequels turn out to be crap. They fool themselves into thinking that just because it has the same names as the original it will be just as successful. This isn't the case. To make things worse, Disney honestly believes that guests won't go on a ride if they don't already know what it's about. Submarine Voyage? No way I'm going on that. Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, Now that I can go on because it's probably like that movie.

    A theme park is its own medium. It can create a place that actually resonates with an audience more than some movie character can because it is all encompassing. Instead of sitting in a dark room staring at a flat screen, a themed environment can stimulate all five of your senses simultaneously. It can be more real to an audience than any film ever could. To say that you need some sort of outside reference to make people understand the place they are standing in grossly underestimates what themed design is capable of. Being in the jungles of Adventureland is enough to make people want to buy pith helmets and those khaki vests with a million pockets. They don't need a Jungle Cruise movie to tell them that's cool. Immersing the audience in a convincing world works better than any movie tie in ever could.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  14. #59

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by mousegoddess View Post
    huh....when i think of elves i think of cookies!
    lmao...
    For the love of Disney....

  15. #60

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    Re: What land/ride would you like to be WDW's potter swatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    Being in the jungles of Adventureland is enough to make people want to buy pith helmets and those khaki vests with a million pockets. They don't need a Jungle Cruise movie to tell them that's cool. Immersing the audience in a convincing world works better than any movie tie in ever could.
    But it's not! How many Carsland shirts have you seen around? Compare that to the Adventureland shirts you've seen. The IP sells the merch.

    And as to your point about the Submarine Voyage, well Finding Nemo actually does help it. My daughter is pretty weary of rides she can't see or are in the dark, and there's no way she would get on a generic submarine. But knowing Nemo was associated with it, she was perfectly fine getting on and riding. The same applied to RSR. And I know she's not the only person like this.

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