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  1. #16

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    i have never been to WDW... the sheer size of it scares me (at least for now, with little kids in tow). i've been to disneyland several times, feel confident in knowing the layout, etc. i do want to experience WDW, but i'm def. gonna wait a few (like, 10) years. however, the cost of getting to WDW from western canada is massive, so it will be most likely a one-time trip, wheras disneyland is closer and cheaper to get to from where i am.

  2. #17

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    I think nothing is more magical than walking past abandoned buildings like the Odyssey or the Adventureland Verandah. Turning off effects in rides ensures that my favorites will always be open instead of closed for refurbishment. I also love the convenience of being able to buy the same merchandise at whichever store I am visiting.

  3. #18

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Trees... well I personally don't like Disneyland's tree infestation and how it blocks views of the castle and fireworks. there's just far too many freakin' trees in Disneyland's hub and Main Street. After seeing the photos of the overuse of trees at the MK and now the updated removal of many trees, well I love it.

    I now wonder if guests complained and griped about the over use of trees in the Magic Kingdom thus 'causing their removal. Or maybe they just wanted a less cluttered look. Either way, it's how I like it.
    Micoofy Duck
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  4. #19

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
    I love this revisionist history that "Walt walked in WDW'. ummmm NO. Walt walked the Swamp. Ground had not even broken!! Did he design the LAYOUT of the whole property?? YES. But he did not have any design influence for MK or the hotels because by that time he didn't care about the northern part. He only cared about Epcot. I think if Roy had lived longer there might be more history at MK.
    How do you know this? Is it because in the EPCOT film he mostly talks about EPCOT? Well there's a surprise. The film was created to get investors to fund the EPCOT project. Walt had a pitch to make and in order to sell it he had to stay on message. He also already had Disneyland, which was a huge success. The investors already knew what to expect there, so he didn't have to say much about it.

    This was the first time ever that Disney was getting involved in the hotel business. Do you really think Walt would just blow that off? Walt was able to focus on more than one thing at a time. I think it was within his abilities to guide both Phase 1 and EPCOT at the same time. He may have been more focused on EPCOT, but it's ridiculous to think he'd just leave the rest of the resort completely up to WED without any input.

    How much history does the Magic Kingdom need? It has the phone company in the town square, Swan Boats and the ambiguous reason for moving the load platform, The building that disappeared from Liberty Square, The Orange Bird, The Country Bear Jamboree, Dick Nunis surfing in the Seven Seas Lagoon, "Formal Shorts", The Western River Expedition and why Marc Davis hated Tony Baxter, The Carousel of Progress and the Progress City model. That's just off the top of my head and it's only the Magic Kingdom in the 70s. Sure, if "history" only means stuff Walt lived to see completed, there isn't much, but that's not what history means.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  5. #20

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    How do you know this? **snipping amazing stuff to save space** Sure, if "history" only means stuff Walt lived to see completed, there isn't much, but that's not what history means.
    Hear, hear!

    Like so many things in life, we each attribute the most importance to the things that are important to us. We also tend to feel that things we have experience of are the most important to us. To apply that to the Disney experience, we feel the most "history" with the park/resort that we have the most personal history with... whether it is the "original" DL, WDW, TDL, or DLP.

    The fact that DLR has the advantage of an additional decade and a half of existence and the added glamour of Walt's physical footsteps may enhance the history of that park, but it by no means negates the depth and emotional value of the history of WDW or any other park.

    “That's the way a lot of things happen... You think one person did something
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  6. #21

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Dapper Da, Walt's non-involvement in the design of the Magic Kingdom is well documented. That work only really began in 1967. If there was Walt-era work on the Magic Kingdom you can bet it would be in every single Walt Disney World coffee table book. The EPCOT Film doesn't just skip over the Magic Kingdom, it only shows a copy of Disneyland dropped in its place. You're also assuming that Walt knew that Disney would run the hotels. The Disneyland Hotel was owned and operated by Jack Rather and having a third party operate the hotels was considered for Walt Disney world as well. The Polynesian Village and Contemporary Resort were built and to be operated in partnership with US Steel before Disney bought them out late in the game.

  7. #22

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Recommended reading for the OP...
    Magic Kingdom Tree Massacre

    and that doesn't include the trees that were taken out for the new castle projection show down near Main Street...
    I read some of what was in the thread. I personally feel that the removal of trees in the hub make for a better view. Also worth considering is how trees in this area affected the utilidors below. That could have been the cause for their removal from this area. There is no way to know for sure.

  8. #23

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    I will say it in one word "Transportation" ....I have been to MK 3 times now and don't understand why they don't have a train connecting all the parks or just multiple mass transit options...also my second beef is CM attitude is bad, to include the local rudeness.
    If your looking for Alice she's not here...

  9. #24

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    The biggest problems with WDW is a failure of longterm planning and the resort becoming too big to maintain. Disney failed to keep up with the past decade relying instead on its late 80s early 90s glory days while eliminating a good amount of stuff from that time.

  10. #25

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I think nothing is more magical than walking past abandoned buildings like the Odyssey or the Adventureland Verandah. Turning off effects in rides ensures that my favorites will always be open instead of closed for refurbishment. I also love the convenience of being able to buy the same merchandise at whichever store I am visiting.
    I really hope you're being sarcastic, but I can't tell.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    I think it's time for an exerpt from Rolly Crump's book "It's Kind of a Cute Story" describing his experiences as an Imagineer working directly for Walt. There's a chapter on Walt Disney World and I'll share this little part from it:

    "When we were doing Walt Disney World, I'll be honest with you, I don't think DickIrvine had a clue what he was doing. Without Walt's guiding hand, it was a bit of a mess. Don't get me wrong, Dick was a wonderful administrator, but as a designer he didn't know a thing.

    At Disneyland, everything is scaled down. Nothing is the proper size. It's small, and that's what gives it part of its charm. It hugs you. Walt Disney World was all scaled up. Everything is larger than life, and they lost a lot of that charm in the process. For example, the Castle at Disneyland is only 77 feet tall. The one at Walt Disney World is 190 feet tall. That's a big difference.

    When all of this work started taking place, I started getting a little perturbed about the fact that we were losing the look and style of Disney. Dick hired a lot of Art Directors and designers from 20th Century Fox to develop the Magic Kingdom. These were guys he worked with in the past, and he thought they would do a good job. But in the end, it just looked like a bunch of people tried to copy Disney.

    There was a philosophy of design behind Disneyland. Everything had a good theme behind it, and I thought that was missing at Walt Disney World. A good example is the Enchanted Tiki Room. At Disneyland, we based our designs on the Sepik River regions of New Guinea. We used that as a template and we went from there. That was our philosophical theme behind it. When we were doing Walt Disney World, that philosophy was lost somewhere along the way.

    That's not to say I dislike Walt Disney World. It's still a beautiful place, but it really got away from the vision Walt had to begin with."



    And that's coming from the inside. From someone working there. From someone who knew Walt personally.


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  12. #27

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    And that's coming from the inside. From someone working there. From someone who knew Walt personally.
    And yet isn't that still just his opinion? Didn't Walt himself lament the fact that Disneyland was on such a small property? He stated that Florida would give them the blessing of size to work with. There were still plenty of people around who knew and worked with Walt, including his own brother, who were involved in planning, designing and building Walt Disney World.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they did a few things that Walt may not have agreed with but there is no way to know for sure about what Walt would or would not have wanted.

  13. #28

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    If you want to see the removal of greenery and water in an even starker contrast, check out some before and afters of the Communicore/Innoventions Plaza.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  14. #29

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    For me, Walt Disney World is a magnificent, awe-inspiring, magical hot mess. Half the resort, to me, is stunning. The other half ... not so much.

    The World Showcase of Epcot and Animal Kingdom are works of art - there's absolutely no denying that. Yet, I find that the other half of Epcot, 'Future' World, is lacking ... well, Future. The new Test Track is helping meet the requirements of a true Future World, however, Disney needs to get attractions such as "The Seas with Nemo and Friends" out of there. Disney's Hollywood Studios ... where do I start? Disney could have done so well in blending different eras of show business represented throughout the park, yet they infest the park with rides such as Star Tours and The Legend of Captain Jack Sparrow. Ride count is another factor which leads to the demise of Hollywood Studios - according to the Disney website, DHS has only 13 rides in 135 acres of land, only three of them being a kiddie ride. Disney's California Adventure, on the other hand, only works with 65 acres of land, and somehow has 35 rides and attractions, 15 of them being for young ones (that's more than the entire DHS count). Finally, Magic Kingdom. If you've never been to been to Disneyland, but you've been to Magic Kingdom, Magic Kingdom is amazingly stellar. However, once compared to Disneyland, it ranks as a whole notch lower. Small World has a facade, Space Mountain has music, Disneyland has a Matterhorn and Indiana Jones ... I could go on all day. I've been going to Disneyland my entire life, and Magic Kingdom only a few, though. I love the Magic Kingdom, but I'll always be inclined to compare it to my home park, and when the Magic Kingdom can rise to the bar set by Disneyland, that'll be a joyous day.
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  15. #30

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    I grew up at Disneyland, and as you can tell by my photo I even worked there for my first job, and I can tell you that I very much enjoy Walt Disney World. In my experience, most people like the place where their childhood memories are, so people from the West Coast almost always prefer Disneyland and vice versa. Also, a person's expectations make the biggest difference in how much they enjoy something, and so someone who grew up with Disneyland going to Walt Disney World is going to notice the things that WDW does worse then DL more then they notice the things that WDW does better. For me they are two very different places. Disneyland is far more richly detailed then the Magic Kingdom, but it's also half the size and not only is the Magic Kingdom itself bigger but many of the rides (like Space Mountain) are bigger then their DL counterparts. At Disneyland, if I want to pop over to DCA, grab a fastpass for RSR, then spend the rest of the day at DL, then go back to DCA whenever my fastpass time is, I can totally do that. At WDW, that's not possible, even with your own car. So it's just different, and everyone has their own preferences. It does seem to me like maintenance is better at DL then WDW, but then again there's a lot more to maintain at WDW. On the other hand, I love staying at some of the hotels at WDW like the Boardwalk, Polynesian, Wilderness Lodge, and Animal Kingdom Lodge. Grand Californian is awesome, and if you really splurge and get a theme park view room you can watch World of Color from your balcony, but I'd take one of the WDW hotels any day. I love DL because of the memories I have going there as a kid, and the memories I have of working there, but I love WDW too and look forward to making new memories with my own family one day. It's basically just different flavors of ice cream, some people like chocolate, and some people like vanilla (or in this case, maybe I should say some people like a scoop on a cone and some people like a mega-sundae with 20 different toppings).
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