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  1. #1

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    Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    All right, I've been around Micechat for a couple of years now and even though I don't post very often I still read a lot of posts/comments/articles. I know that this is mostly a West coast-centric crowd here because that's how the site basically started. My real question is to those who tend to make negative comments or have negative views towards Walt Disney World (and I mean this in all seriousness), what's your beef? And please go into specifics about why you don't like Walt Disney World versus Disneyland Resort. Don't be vague, like "it's just not the same".

    I have visited Disneyland and I can truthfully say that it is fantastic, but in comparison I did not find anything that was overwhelming better than Walt Disney World. Yes, there is the history and believe me as real Disney history fanatic I respected that (I even took the "Walk in Walt's Footsteps" tour), but there is history at Walt Disney World too. Remember that it was built just 16 years after Disneyland and Walt still designed it. He even walked the grounds before it was built (that's just for those who always say that Walt actually walked in Disneyland) .

    So let's have it. Be civil and courteous but let me know what you really think. Everyone has an opinion so now's the time to voice it openly (not that that hasn't been the case before). Maybe even a few WDW defenders can pop in from time to time to submit their views too.

  2. #2

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    For me in a nutshell. I love to vacation in both places, but Disneyland has my heart. It captured that after I visited it for the first time in 2005, during the 50th Anniversary. I have found that matters of the heart, and emotional attachments to places, can sometimes never be satisfactorily explained to another person. Take my word for the fact, that given a choice, I'd rather head west to Disneyland than east to Disney World.

    Good luck with your thread.

  3. #3

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the MK. I like it. Some of the rides in MK are like the light version of the ones that are in DL, that's about the only complaint I'd have. I actually like the HM better in MK than in DL.

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreepyMonkey View Post
    In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the MK. I like it.

    I feel the same here too about MK. I'm a Magic Kingdom boy at heart forever. I'm visiting DL this summer but always make big longer trips to WDW for a reason. WDW is my park. For some WDW just can't get it right... I know its a broad statement but that's how people feel. I don't see WDW as a negative or ever "declining". Both parks in my opinion are always thriving and pushing forward to new things. The balance of maintaining and creating at WDW seems to be another issue here.

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  5. #5

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Here's my reasoning and it's mainly based on knowing what Disneyland already is, and therefore you expect Walt Disney World to be a certain thing more. More, it certainly is... but more of what I'm expecting it certainly is not.

    Let me explain, and this is a Walt quote that got me so excited when I was a kid having never been to Disney World.

    "Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland...the blessing of size. There's enough land here to hold all the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine."



    So you see, Walt clearly states in that quote that if he was to build Walt Disney World, it wouldn't just be a carbon copy of Disneyland. It would be better. It would have more. It would have the most "DISNEY" anywhere. And not just the most, but the BEST.

    The Walt Disney Company and/or the Orlando management team has not lived up to that dream Walt had. To truly make WDW the world class destination it should be. It certainly STILL has the potential, but for the last 40 years, they have not. They showed great progress with Epcot and then petered out when MGM-Studios and then Animal Kingdom got built.


    They attracted more visitors with more parks, but those parks are still "empty" and not fulfilling... or at least not AS fulfilling as Magic Kingdom. And Magic Kingdom on its own isn't as fulfilling as Disneyland.




    I'm a hard core fan of what Disney Imagineering is able to create. Whether that be lands or attractions (but mostly rides, personally), and FOR THE MONEY I'M PAYING, I'm not getting my return.

    WDW should be the best in the world, not the most in the world. I look over to Japan and they have a land INSIDE OF A VOLCANO. Wow. With Florida, with all of its size and property, how is it that their imagination is more limited than another country's? Why aren't I able to travel by Monorail EVERYWHERE? Upkeep is also a problem. Everything is breaking down and not given the proper refurbishment. Entire lands are closed (Wonders of Life Pavillion at Epcot anyone?) without a replacement. Favorite drinking establishments are closed (Adventurers Club) for no good reason.

    The properties are so spread out that it's a pain just to visit another hotel to check it out. It's a pain to park hop, it's a pain to do anything at all.


    Lastly, the percentage of cast members I encounter that are genuinely good is really low. Most of the great ones are in the hotels. I guess the CM's here haven't grown up around there or don't know it like Disneyland CMs do. They don't have the answers and in my experience, didn't know how to find out. The place is too big and they're just there for some college experience and not passionate about it in the slightest. So overall, all of my trips had more share of negatives than positives.




    So... that's my "beef" so to speak. I'm hopeful that they can turn it around. The last part regarding CMs, I'm hope it's just my bad luck. But everything else I mentioned remains pretty "true" I think. At least as it pertains to what Walt said.

    Like Han Solo said in Star Wars, "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit."


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  6. #6

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Walt Disney World definitely has its own history. It's younger, so the history is shorter, but it has just as much if not more history than Disneyland. Its history is also not Disneyland's history. People seem to think that Walt made Disneyland, then after he died, the company freaked and tried to make Disneyland again. This is not remotely true. Walt Disney World is 16 years younger than Disneyland, but the more important number is that it opened just 5 years after Walt died. People have this odd belief that Walt had nothing to do with the resort that bears his name. He walked the grounds. He had a hand in the design. He held press conferences and made a film about his plans. He set up several dummy corporations to secretly purchase the land. That alone has a ton of really cool history.

    I don't like comparing Disneyland to Walt Disney World because they serve completely different functions. Disneyland is and always will be about the theme parks. Walt Disney World from its very inception was designed in a way that parks are just one of the many recreations being offered.

    The resort is by no means perfect, but when I criticize it, I don't compare it to Disneyland. I compare it to what it used to be because it used to be much better in nearly every respect.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  7. #7

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    The resort is by no means perfect, but when I criticize it, I don't compare it to Disneyland. I compare it to what it used to be because it used to be much better in nearly every respect.

    This i also agree with. Each subsequent trip following my first one... there was more things not working. More things closing. More things just not up to the Disney standards that I was grown to believe.

    Meanwhile Universal Orlando just keeps upping and upping. They're acting more like Disney than Disney is.


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  8. #8

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    I love this revisionist history that "Walt walked in WDW'. ummmm NO. Walt walked the Swamp. Ground had not even broken!! Did he design the LAYOUT of the whole property?? YES. But he did not have any design influence for MK or the hotels because by that time he didn't care about the northern part. He only cared about Epcot. I think if Roy had lived longer there might be more history at MK.

  9. #9

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
    But he did not have any design influence for MK or the hotels because by that time he didn't care about the northern part. He only cared about Epcot.
    Didn't care about the "northern part", or was more concerned about EPCOT because he knew he only had so much time left and had to be selective about where he focused his attention? He most likely knew MK would be fine without him. EPCOT was his next step dream, so of course his attention would be more focused there.

    But your initial point is correct. Walt never walked in the physically realized WDW MK.

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  10. #10

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Don't get me wrong - I LOVE WDW, even though I don't hestate to point out when something isn't being done as it should. But DLR does get points in my book for being much better maintained overall and for having superior versions of a few cloned attractions.

  11. #11

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    You want reasons? Here's why...

    Maintenance sucks in Florida. Rides and railings go without stripping and repainting for years. And when they do repaint, they don't strip off the old paint properly, which makes the surfaces look uneven and glue like.

    Animatronics break or go into limited movement and never get fixed... or when they do get fixed, its been years.

    Effects get taken away for "budget" or "green" reasons... You want proof? Go into the Magic Kingdom and count how many fountains and trees have been taken away in the last 15 years.

    For maintenance, you may make the excuse that Florida has worse outdoor conditions than California. My response to that is, sure, Disneyland may have better weather, but WDW has had more rain for almost 45 years, you'd think they'd learn how to deal with it.

    WDW isn't as clean... there is gum everywhere on the ground, and the queues for attractions aren't patrolled by the custodians enough. (Except Hollywood Studios, their custodial team seems to be fantastic, and I have no idea why.)

    WDW closes things early for no reason. Epcot still closes at 9pm when people would gladly spend more money in the park to wait for the fireworks at 10pm, and everyone knows it's hard enough to get dining reservations as it is. That extra hour would do wonders. (Why some of the most popular bars in the hotels on property close at midnight still confuses the heck out of me, especially when their Disneyland cousins stay open till 1:30 or 2.) You want room service at your hotel? You're out of luck if it's after 11pm most places, and even then, all you can get is pizza and very simple items.

    I could go on and on... but WDW's issues are all the little things that add up.

    I'm not saying Disneyland isn't without its little things too... but Disneyland keeps them isolated. WDW's problems are widespread and really add up, because you see the same problems over and over again as you explore the resort.

    There's a lot more, but I'm getting tired of typing.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Effects get taken away for "budget" or "green" reasons... You want proof? Go into the Magic Kingdom and count how many fountains and trees have been taken away in the last 15 years.
    That is an interesting issue. I'm not sure if you are native to Florida but we have been under severe water restrictions for years as water levels in the aquifer (our main source of water) keep getting lower and lower. The removal or discontinued use of fountains is a environmentally conscious act that I credit Disney for undertaking. Sometimes the concept of show quality must take a back seat to doing what is right.

    As for the removal of trees, I really don't see that at all. In fact I think that many areas of the property have only grown more lush with greenery as time passes.

  13. #13

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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySam View Post
    That is an interesting issue. I'm not sure if you are native to Florida but we have been under severe water restrictions for years as water levels in the aquifer (our main source of water) keep getting lower and lower. The removal or discontinued use of fountains is a environmentally conscious act that I credit Disney for undertaking. Sometimes the concept of show quality must take a back seat to doing what is right.

    As for the removal of trees, I really don't see that at all. In fact I think that many areas of the property have only grown more lush with greenery as time passes.
    If Disney really cared about the Aquifer and conserving water, they would close catastrophe canyon, or the backlot tour.
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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    You want reasons? Here's why...

    Maintenance sucks in Florida. Rides and railings go without stripping and repainting for years. And when they do repaint, they don't strip off the old paint properly, which makes the surfaces look uneven and glue like.

    Animatronics break or go into limited movement and never get fixed... or when they do get fixed, its been years.

    Effects get taken away for "budget" or "green" reasons... You want proof? Go into the Magic Kingdom and count how many fountains and trees have been taken away in the last 15 years.

    For maintenance, you may make the excuse that Florida has worse outdoor conditions than California. My response to that is, sure, Disneyland may have better weather, but WDW has had more rain for almost 45 years, you'd think they'd learn how to deal with it.

    WDW isn't as clean... there is gum everywhere on the ground, and the queues for attractions aren't patrolled by the custodians enough. (Except Hollywood Studios, their custodial team seems to be fantastic, and I have no idea why.)

    WDW closes things early for no reason. Epcot still closes at 9pm when people would gladly spend more money in the park to wait for the fireworks at 10pm, and everyone knows it's hard enough to get dining reservations as it is. That extra hour would do wonders. (Why some of the most popular bars in the hotels on property close at midnight still confuses the heck out of me, especially when their Disneyland cousins stay open till 1:30 or 2.) You want room service at your hotel? You're out of luck if it's after 11pm most places, and even then, all you can get is pizza and very simple items.

    I could go on and on... but WDW's issues are all the little things that add up.

    I'm not saying Disneyland isn't without its little things too... but Disneyland keeps them isolated. WDW's problems are widespread and really add up, because you see the same problems over and over again as you explore the resort.

    There's a lot more, but I'm getting tired of typing.


    I would like you to keep going actually. I enjoy nodding in agreement apparently.


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    Re: Walt Disney World - Seriously, what's your beef?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    And you don't see the removal of trees? Seriously? Come on, someone help me out here. Anyone got some before and after photos of the Magic Kingdom Hub pre-redo in 2003? Or Fantasyland pre-2011?
    Recommended reading for the OP...
    Magic Kingdom Tree Massacre

    and that doesn't include the trees that were taken out for the new castle projection show down near Main Street...
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