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  1. #151

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Then what makes the park distinct? Captain EO features a crew of aliens, would it fit inside the Tree of Life? He brings a message of hope for the future and that's a significant component of conservations, because we can change the world. Star Wars has lots of creatures. Monstropolis would be full of imaginary creatures as well as having a parallel with their energy issues. Smurfs are animals and right now as I type this the page has a "Experience the Wonders of the Forest!" ad with Papa Smurf and Smurfette. How about Frozen and its ice creatures?
    Well the smurfs don't care about the environment.. nor is the environment or conservation the core of the story. Same with Eo, or other thrown out examples. It's not just 'aliens' but a story about conservation, nature, and how creatures and nature are intertwined.

    I get that it's 'not of this earth' - but I find that less significant than the undertones that DO tie the world of Pandora to the park. The park celebrates animals and nature... and those are the central elements of this story. It fits far better than Finding Nemo the Musical... whose only connection to the park is that the characters happen to be animals.
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  2. #152

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Look, I don't care if there are 9' tall smurfs riding the dragons circling around Cinderella's castle. I just want dragons circling around Cinderella's castle. And if the way to 3d real time rendered free floating holograms is to give Cameron a billion dollars and promise to use Pandora for an attraction testbed? Ok. Fine. Whatever it takes for the costumes in the park to stop being costumes and be the actual characters. And man, when the pirates start jumping onto your boat, it's gonna be great...

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  3. #153

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Mythical and fantasy animals have their own earths. They have their own state of existence. To restrict their environment to the earth, where they don't live in, is little understood. The Pandora world is clearly outside of earth, but the world is fantastic because it does resemble in some ways to earth. Did you realize that some vistas were actually filmed in China? Thus, the Avatar lore is very much earth based. It has dragon creatures and horses that are no different than what we have imagined.

    Fantasy Pandora might as well be about the mythical Middle Earth with how much the stories are derived from each other. One such similarity is the portrayal of the land. It is so emcompassing. Then there is the strange creatures living there.

    My perspective is Avatar is a "story that originated from Earth" as opposed to being from earth. The invaders are from earth, the United States to be precise. Anyways, there is no such Middle Earth. How can it be from earth? To be on the clear with these rules, we have to find a place of origination for these mythical and fantasy creatures. But most people won't care, and they will ignore the potential dilemma of Avatar. It is much to cerebral to contemplate.

  4. #154

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    But most people won't care, and they will ignore the potential dilemma of Avatar. It is much to cerebral to contemplate.
    Having seen Avatar multiple times in its theatrical release and on video, I'd call it many things.

    "Cerebral" isn't one of them.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  5. #155

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Nemo and the Lion king aren't real life either but add an animal whimsy factor that fits fine with the park IMO.
    And while I think Avatar kinda pushes the limits, I'm glad Disney is adding something to the park.

  6. #156

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    FYI, I haven't follow the plans for this closely. What is the exact space Avatarland will take up. I just know Camp Minnie Mickey and the Festival of the Lion King. Any surrounding areas? An image/map would be best to show me.
    Murphy,with that neck, is like E.T. in dragon form

  7. #157

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Universal may have been first, but it was poorly done, IMHO.
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  8. #158

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    People really are going to bizarre great lengths to oppose Avatar. The current thread of discussion originated because someone thought Animal Kingdom was a literal representation of the kingdom animalia. It's not -- the park isn't literally just about animals. In fact, Disney launched an entire marketing campaign to counter the idea that it was just an animal park. The confusion is understandable, but Disney fans usually know better. It's disappointing that more people don't get it because it's one of the few Disney parks that still tells a coherent, meaningful story.

    Now, not the only one, but one of the major themes of Disney’s Animal Kingdom is this intrinsic value of nature, this idea that nature itself has a value, which is a greater value than anything else you can put on the other side of the ballast. Nature’s value is greater than money, nature’s value is greater than convenience, nature has intrinsic value, a value in and of itself. I don’t have to save the environment because it’s good for the watershed, I can just save the environment because it’s got value. So, if this is one of the fundamental values of Animal Kingdom, and we decided very early on if you were going to have animals, by default, it’s gonna be, you’re gonna have this theme of nature, and the animals can’t be strangers in this environment. This has to be a place where animals make sense, and animals don’t behave like theme park audio-animatronics, they have life, they have will, they do what they please, they live, they have babies, they eventually die. So, if you are going to have a place that is about animals, it has to be about the very idea at the very bottom of animals, which is the intrinsic value of nature.
    Joe Rohde

    When accepting his Golden Globe Award for best picture, for example, he said: “Avatar asks us to see that everything is connected, all human beings to each other, and us to the Earth. And if you have to go four and a half light years to another, made-up planet to appreciate this miracle of the world that we have right here, well, you know what, that’s the wonder of cinema right there, that’s the magic”…..Cameron repeated this theme, adding, with delight, that at the climax of the film the audience had come to take the side of nature in its battle against the destructive forces of an expansionist human civilization. Here, without using the terminology of contemporary environmental ethics, Cameron expressed an affinity for deep ecological or biocentric theories, in which nature is considered to have intrinsic value.
    from Avatar and Nature Spirituality
    Last edited by WDWorldly; 10-15-2013 at 09:18 PM.

  9. #159

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    To me, the only thing more eye-rolling than the derivative plot, stereotypical characters and banal dialogue of Avatar is the self aggrandizing manner in which its director has attempted to elevate its embarrassingly simplistic, tedious preachiness. It's unfortunate that Imagineering has been pressed into service as a mouthpiece for Cameron's self serving Spin-A-Thon, but it's to be expected given the nature of the beast (no pun intended).
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-15-2013 at 10:07 PM.
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  10. #160

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by BradyNBradleysMom View Post

    I also wonder what kind of animals would come out at night for the safari and how they would get the animals on and off the safari trails and switch them out like that. Sounds complicated and dangerous!
    Each species in Kilimanjaro Safaris is trained to respond to a different sound cue (drums, bird call, etc.) when it's time to go in for the night - they already go in one group at a time, and some go back to the barns in inclement weather more frequently than others. So it wouldn't be as big a stretch as you might think to have a "shift change." Although I too am hard-pressed to think what nocturnal African species they don't already have that could be introduced in that kind of setting (ie not enough containment for leopards, civets are tiny and would be hard to see from a moving vehicle, already have lions). I think it would be more an issue of removing the "early to bed" species at an appropriate time and probably rotating out some of the individual animals who have already been onstage all day for some who have been backstage and then adding the night vision element. Regardless, I am very excited to see what they do - assuming that it's actually an enhancement to the standard guest experience and not just another upcharge tour. As much as I love Disney, I save the upcharge animal-related stuff for the Wilds, since it's closer to home and needs the money more.

  11. #161

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Anyways, there is no such Middle Earth. How can it be from earth? To be on the clear with these rules, we have to find a place of origination for these mythical and fantasy creatures.
    Tolkien wrote Middle Earth as an ancient mythological history for our world with the Shire having become England.
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  12. #162

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by FigmentJedi View Post
    Tolkien wrote Middle Earth as an ancient mythological history for our world with the Shire having become England.
    The Shire looks more like Ireland; however, my point was the Middle Earth with the Hobbits, Elves, dwarves, and Orcs don't seem to be from the earth that we know. It is an alternative earth.

  13. #163

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Can we please drop the Animal Kingdom is about conservation myth? What part of Dinoland USA is about conserving anything?

    In what culture have people ever believed that Pandora or the creatures that live there are real? That is the real message of the Animal Kingdom, the relationship we have with these animals and what they mean to us.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  14. #164

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    People really are going to bizarre great lengths to oppose Avatar. The current thread of discussion originated because someone thought Animal Kingdom was a literal representation of the kingdom animalia. It's not -- the park isn't literally just about animals. In fact, Disney launched an entire marketing campaign to counter the idea that it was just an animal park. The confusion is understandable, but Disney fans usually know better. It's disappointing that more people don't get it because it's one of the few Disney parks that still tells a coherent, meaningful story.


    Joe Rohde


    from Avatar and Nature Spirituality
    Saw a video of Joe Rohde and he said similar things as the quote you posted. Rohde is one of the original Imagineer, he was also the lead designer, to work on Animal Kingdom. From the pics, he is working on the Avatar project. So I would say he approve with Avatarland
    Murphy,with that neck, is like E.T. in dragon form

  15. #165

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by mondo View Post
    Saw a video of Joe Rohde and he said similar things as the quote you posted. Rohde is one of the original Imagineer, he was also the lead designer, to work on Animal Kingdom. From the pics, he is working on the Avatar project.
    Not to nitpick Disney history, but Joe was not one of the "original" (first generation) Imagineers -- he started with the Company in 1980.

    Quote Originally Posted by mondo View Post
    So I would say he approve with Avatarland.
    Also in point of historical fact, Imagineers publicly approve of whatever the Company tells them to approve of. No exceptions.

    None of the above is to be construed as a slight on Joe. However, the logic of "Joe's working on it, therefore he approves of it, therefore it's got to be good" is a non-argument and is no indication of the quality or success of Avatarland.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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