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  1. #181

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    It's a sticky point, but Avatar is *not* about the value of nature - it's about the value of indigenous cultures and uses the respect of the Navii for their flora/fauna as a shortcut through the cultural shorthand of "all native cultures respect the land and are good". The thematic and script similarities to Dances With Wolves are... deep and very prevalent. In both movies the native tribes exploited by the more advanced "others" drives things, and the "respect for nature" that the heroes experience on their journey are a symbol of the tribe, not the driving force behind the movie.
    I agree with this earlier comment:

    Conservation is an important message in several of the attractions, but it is not the central message that ties everything together.
    Avatar and Animal Kingdom have consistent underlying values systems and thus arrive at a lot of the same conclusions. It's clear that the "intrinsic value of nature" is a premise or foundational principle that both share. From that overarching theme comes the specific messages of the stories told in Animal Kingdom's attractions and in Avatar's narrative that relate back to that original premise. One of the themes that's often emphasized in the park is conservation, but it's not the only one and it isn't the foundational "central message that ties everything together." (The idea that it's fundamentally just about animals or how they're meaningful to us, though, is a misinterpretation considering what the park's lead imagineer has said and how that's evidenced in the park.)

    So the "intrinsic value of nature" isn't just a point of conflict or symbol - it's the reason why the film exalts the indigenous as greater protectors of the planet. In any case, perfect alignment with a park's central message isn't absolutely necessary and very rarely is the case with Disney, but in this case it comes very close: evidence for the similarities are plentiful and obvious. On the other hand, the evidence for what Cars, The Little Mermaid, and Monsters, Inc. have to do with California is more tenuous and ironically provokes fewer complaints here, but Avatar warrants a scathing editorial and tons of comments objecting to it.
    Last edited by WDWorldly; 10-21-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  2. #182

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    On the other hand, the evidence for what Cars, The Little Mermaid, and Monsters, Inc. have to do with California is more tenuous and ironically provokes fewer complaints here, but Avatar warrants a scathing editorial and tons of comments objecting to it.
    In point of fact, Carsland and Mermaid (Carsland especially) were heavily criticized on the DLR forum when they were announced, when they were under construction and after their opening, as is Monsters currently.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #183

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    About.com talks to Joe Rohde (10/17/13)
    While he didn't divulge much, he did clear up a few misconceptions and provide a few bits of info about the ambitious project. For example, it has been widely rumored that the land's E-Ticket attraction, which will simulate an airborne ride aboard a Pandoran banshee creature, would use a ride system patterned after the popular
    Soarin'
    attractions at Epcot and Disney California Adventure. Rohde said that there might be some similarities, but that the Avatar attraction would be "considerably more thrilling" than Soarin' and incorporate some new, groundbreaking features. He also said that even though the movie on which it is based is the most popular 3D film ever produced, his Imagineering team had not yet decided whether to render the media for the attraction in 3D.
    Rohde says that apart from the rides, the land "will seem to be a living creature itself." He also contends that a visit to the Pandora he and his team are creating will be a "transformational experience that you really will remember for the rest of your life." To build the fanciful world, Rohde says that the Imagineers are exploring new technology, new art, and new materials, and are employing a healthy dose of innovation. In my conversation with him, he didn't offer any more details about the "floating mountains," but said that they would be a centerpiece of the new land, and that they would delight guests.
    So, right, it'll look just like LightMagic and the rides will be nothing more than Soarin' and Jungle Cruise with blue people.

  4. #184

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by About.com
    He also contends that a visit to the Pandora he and his team are creating will be a "transformational experience that you really will remember for the rest of your life."
    After experiencing the lackluster reality of what Tony called a "major E-Ticket" (Disneyland's Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video), I'll be interested to see what Joe calls a "transformational experience."



    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    So, right, it'll look just like LightMagic and the rides will be nothing more than Soarin' and Jungle Cruise with blue people.
    Unfortunately, there's nothing in what Disney has built in the last 15 years in the DLR or WDW that suggests Avatarland will be any more than that -- except in the fantasy world of Disney's over-the-top hype.

    Still, in theory it's not impossible for Disney to turn the wallowing battleship of their creativity around and actually build something truly innovative with... how did Joe put it?... "new technology, new art, new materials, and a healthy dose of innovation." He left out "and the same old Eisner-trained management hierarchy breathing down my neck and slashing the budget."

    We'll see how the reality of Avatarland matches the hype of Joe's corporate-approved talking points.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  5. #185

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Unfortunately, there's nothing in what Disney has built in the last 15 years in the DLR or WDW that suggests Avatarland will be any more than that -- except in the fantasy world of Disney's over-the-top hype.
    well I would argue expedition everest but I can see where your coming from.

  6. #186

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    well I would argue expedition everest but I can see where your coming from.
    Not to mention the fact that the person responsible for imagineering Everest, Disney's best original attraction in recent years, is the imagineer overseeing the Avatar project, which will encompass more than a single attraction, have 5x the budget, relate to the park's theme, and will look something like this (so maybe a little different than the sub redo?). The cynicism people tend to have towards this project is excessive.

  7. #187

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Notwithstanding Expedition Everest (a roller coaster which opened almost eight years ago and is famous for its broken "Disco Yeti" AA), the criticism that people have of Avatarland is hardly excessive; it has been well earned by Disney management's notorious budget slashing and micromanagement of WDI's efforts.

    The lackluster quality of new WDW attractions, the decline of WDW maintenance and the overall declining-by-degrees of WDW's offerings in general over the last 15 years is testament to management's shortsighted focus on stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. The skepticism of Avatarland isn't about the talent of Joe, it's about the narrow vision of his Disney bosses who call the shots.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  8. #188

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    About.com talks to Joe Rohde (10/17/13)

    So, right, it'll look just like LightMagic and the rides will be nothing more than Soarin' and Jungle Cruise with blue people.

    I always wonder if people look to this comparrison when comparing POTC and IASW they are the same ride system arent they? Or heck Dinosaur and Indy they are the exact same layout and ride system. IMO the experiences on all these attractions are way different because of how they are used. Where the Pandora attractions might be using the same systems that current attractions use, I would guess the experience will be different.

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Notwithstanding Expedition Everest (a roller coaster which opened almost eight years ago and is famous for its broken "Disco Yeti" AA), the criticism that people have of Avatarland is hardly excessive; it has been well earned by Disney management's notorious budget slashing and micromanagement of WDI's efforts.

    The lackluster quality of new WDW attractions, the decline of WDW maintenance and the overall declining-by-degrees of WDW's offerings in general over the last 15 years is testament to management's shortsighted focus on stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. The skepticism of Avatarland isn't about the talent of Joe, it's about the narrow vision of his Disney bosses who call the shots.
    . .
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    .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    ^ Well put. ^

  10. #190

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewshuji View Post
    However, consider that depending on who you ask, you are always going to get a different rendering of a "dragon", or "unicorn", or, indeed, "yeti". Some people on our planet think the word dragon (or what dragon translates into in their language) means a creature with a human's face, a turtle's shell, and a lion's body. Some people see the qilin, the "Chinese Unicorn" as resembling the common European invisionment of the unicorn, or a more fantastical giraffe (indeed, kirin means both qilin and giraffe in Japanese)... while others see it as a chimera with horse, lion, tiger, fish, and other animal parts.

    Fact is, mythological creatures would be interpreted just as unusually as any alien would. Maybe not to us, but to other people who visit Disney Parks? Certainly.
    That would make a great Beastly Kingdom exhibit.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #191

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    ... Huh, I didn't even think of that. It would, now wouldn't it?
    Too bad it won't happen. I mean I am enamored by what they've shown us of Avatarland but I really would prefer a Beastly Kingdom, yeah.

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