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  1. #61

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    Agreed--the response to "Avatar" really shows how insufferable the online Disney fan community can be. It follows the same usual pattern -- groupthink goads everyone into having the same banal, cynical opinion (the ink hasn't dried on the Imagineering plans but its a complete disaster), then when evidence arises that clearly demonstrates it might not be as bad as everyone imagined, it becomes "Soarin with banshees" and "Jungle Cruise after dark."

    "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter" cost $200 million, partially re-theming an existing land. "Avatar" is a $500 million expansion of Animal Kingdom that today's news shows will also lead to positive changes in the rest of the park, and the concept art looks impressive - maybe it's not so crazy to think it might turn out well?
    I think there are different measures of success. I think Disney can build a successful area themed to Avatar. Do I think that Avatar is a solid IP? No.

    Avatar IP, maybe worth about 1 billion in revenue.

    Harry Potter IP, maybe worth about 27 billion.

    In terms of sticking power, something that generates 27 times the revenue is going to have a much better staying power in terms branding. Disney typically invests in things that have stickiness in terms of IP. That isn't to say that it couldn't be amazing, or fantastic, just that Avatar doesn't lend itself to the typical IP traits that has created successful brands.

    Example. Star Wars is the kind of IP Disney does well with. Marvel is the kind Disney does well with. I don't see the attributes of Avatar and how it fits. Disney can create amazing spectacular areas and themes and rides. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to spend $500 million.

  2. #62

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Garthilk View Post
    I think there are different measures of success. I think Disney can build a successful area themed to Avatar. Do I think that Avatar is a solid IP? No.
    I wouldn't want to reject Avatarland out of hand as having completely no interest to me. It will be interesting to see how WDI utilizes various new tech and lighting effects, I kinda think Avatarland will have an appeal like the Main Street Electrical Parade. But unlike the MSEP, I don't have a connection to any of the characters/animals, it would be just, "neat there's a glowy butterfly-thing"

    I'm kinda not into generic rides with mushrooms and elves and glowy things, like in Europa Park:

    Elf Ride - Europa Park - YouTube

    Or Dreamflight in Efteling:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoS4iT9RPq4

    Not saying I wouldn't see Avatarland if I go to Orlando after it opens, but I'd make Potterland and the Be Our Guest Restaurant/Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at New Fantasyland the priority.

    Disney doing Lord of the Rings would be awesome, though, IMHO.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 10-12-2013 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #63

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not at all excited about Avatarland, maybe because it is kinda a made-up place in Animal Kingdom, without any historical kernel.
    Disney's Animal Kingdom focuses on three broad classifications of animals: those that exist in today's reality; those that did exist, but are now extinct (i.e., dinosaurs); and those that only exist in the realm of fantasy.

  4. #64

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Malin View Post
    Disney's Animal Kingdom focuses on three broad classifications of animals: those that exist in today's reality; those that did exist, but are now extinct (i.e., dinosaurs); and those that only exist in the realm of fantasy.
    You're right that the Yeti is mythical, but it is a mythology going back decades, and everything else around Expedition Everest is made to look historically accurate so that when you see the Yeti you believe it.

    It's like what Tony Baxter said about Cinderella, another studio at the time wondered why Disney was researching for the backdrops in Cinderella if the story had that fantasy element (why not just make-up the backdrops? Make them look fantastical?), and it is because if you believe in the world of Cinderella, then you'll believe when a pumpkin turns into her coach. Fantasyland at Disney is home to a lot of characters who don't exist in real life, but the added details help us to believe.

    With Avatarland, it seems that almost everything is fabricated, without much historical references, and without a tie-in to characters that people are familiar with. Hogsmeade at Uni is not a real place, but it looks like it could almost be a real place.

    Remember Light Magic? Disneyland's ill-fated parade that used similar lighting technology to create a fairy world, it was visually interesting, at least for the first couple of minutes, but people were left scratching their heads as it was pure fantasy, almost psychedelic fantasy, IMHO.

    Maybe Avatarland will be a hit, but for me, personally, I'd get kinda bored looking at my 12th fake glowing butterfly and third glowing alligator . . . at some point my brain would kinda recognize the whole thing as being artificial, I think you need a little grounding in reality so that you can swallow the fantastical stuff.

  5. #65

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    I hope everyone realizes that Cameron is signed on for another 3 Avatar films. The franchise isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 2015-2020 is going to be remarkable for Disney. The new Star Wars films, Avatar tetralogy, and the crazy train in Marvel. I'm guessing the next decade in the parks will be drawing heavily from those three.
    Last edited by Kenny Loggins; 10-12-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #66

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    You know what had awesome concept art? Antarctica Penguin Adventure. Go ahead and ask Sea World if they want to go back in time and reinvest their money.

  7. #67

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Disney's Animal Kingdom is about man's connection with his world. The mythical animals were never wholly fantasy. They were considered real and played a very real part in human cultures. There is no authenticity in using wholly fictional creatures, be they of this planet or another.

  8. #68

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    3 points:

    1. As with most posters - Looks pretty
    2. 500 million budget? - After hearing the ridiculous amounts for recent projects, I've got a bad feeling 500 million is not going to go far enough.
    3. 2017 opening? Nearly a HALF DECADE away. And yet - Diagon Alley can be built within a year. What is it with Disney where a "Tea Cup" ride could take 2 years to build these days? What the frig is it??

    So now that I've heard the news ... I can go back to sleep now .. and forget about WDW till I'm 5 years older. night-night
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    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  9. #69

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    3 points:

    1. As with most posters - Looks pretty
    2. 500 million budget? - After hearing the ridiculous amounts for recent projects, I've got a bad feeling 500 million is not going to go far enough.
    3. 2017 opening? Nearly a HALF DECADE away. And yet - Diagon Alley can be built within a year. What is it with Disney where a "Tea Cup" ride could take 2 years to build these days? What the frig is it??

    So now that I've heard the news ... I can go back to sleep now .. and forget about WDW till I'm 5 years older. night-night
    FYI....D.Alley took ALOT longer from the artist concepts to where it is today. It was halfway built before it was announced....lol....Im looking forward to seeing what the imagineers can do with telling of this story ! The last few years, all you heard on here was how Disney didn't do anything without the commercialism aspect included. Now, here is an attraction that DOESNT have much in the way of merchandising, and the same complaints are being heard....lol. This movie was, and still is, HUGE overseas, and who has Disney been trying to attract more? People from overseas. BTW....isn't there an Avatar cartoon on tv right now?

  10. #70

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by redrhino54 View Post
    FYI....D.Alley took ALOT longer from the artist concepts to where it is today. It was halfway built before it was announced....lol....Im looking forward to seeing what the imagineers can do with telling of this story ! The last few years, all you heard on here was how Disney didn't do anything without the commercialism aspect included. Now, here is an attraction that DOESNT have much in the way of merchandising, and the same complaints are being heard....lol. This movie was, and still is, HUGE overseas, and who has Disney been trying to attract more? People from overseas. BTW....isn't there an Avatar cartoon on tv right now?
    Then wouldn't it have made more sense to have Avatar attractions in the overseas parks where most of the stronger fan base is at? Regardless of who's attracted to the movie, I doubt Disney blew $500 million on this theme park property without the intention of getting a massive return on it (especially through the critical core of merchandising). And there's no guarantee that the overseas fans (who don't frequent WDW as much as Americans do) will give Disney those profits they hope to get from this particular franchise.
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  11. #71

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    What is it with Disney where a "Tea Cup" ride could take 2 years to build these days? What the frig is it??
    To put it charitably, it's the result of an enormous bureaucracy that strangles itself with communication dysfunction, corporate egos, inter-division competition and internal politics.

    To that point, the joke about Avatarland is the idea of the film industry's most My Way Or The Highway media monster "creatively collaborating" with the industry's most My Way Or The Highway director... who also happens to own the one-trick-pony franchise that the media monster is licensing.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-12-2013 at 08:00 PM.
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  12. #72

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    One of the Avatar "attractions" descriptions reminded me of this AMC Theater Coke promo



    Even if they used a "Soarin Over California" type of viewing mechnism for this, I don't think the Avatar Attraction would be a match against Harry Potter at Islands of Adventure. In fact, I don't think an Avatar "film for Soarin" would even be a match for the original Soarin over California movie.

    Disney HAS to do better than just a theater advertisement for Coke.
    Last edited by Aladdin; 10-12-2013 at 06:15 PM.

  13. #73

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by ursaguy View Post
    You know what had awesome concept art? Antarctica Penguin Adventure. Go ahead and ask Sea World if they want to go back in time and reinvest their money.
    Sea World has nothing to do with Disney. So no point in being negative towards the concept art.
    I really doubt they'd go cheap with this. If they do it right, as well with the movies coming out at the same time, this can be really amazing.

    I will say if what's built is far off from the concept, I will be disappointed. But I don't have enough information to be negative about the project, what's shown so far looks awesome.

  14. #74

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    You're right that the Yeti is mythical, but it is a mythology going back decades, and everything else around Expedition Everest is made to look historically accurate so that when you see the Yeti you believe it.

    It's like what Tony Baxter said about Cinderella, another studio at the time wondered why Disney was researching for the backdrops in Cinderella if the story had that fantasy element (why not just make-up the backdrops? Make them look fantastical?), and it is because if you believe in the world of Cinderella, then you'll believe when a pumpkin turns into her coach. Fantasyland at Disney is home to a lot of characters who don't exist in real life, but the added details help us to believe.

    With Avatarland, it seems that almost everything is fabricated, without much historical references, and without a tie-in to characters that people are familiar with. Hogsmeade at Uni is not a real place, but it looks like it could almost be a real place.

    Remember Light Magic? Disneyland's ill-fated parade that used similar lighting technology to create a fairy world, it was visually interesting, at least for the first couple of minutes, but people were left scratching their heads as it was pure fantasy, almost psychedelic fantasy, IMHO.

    Maybe Avatarland will be a hit, but for me, personally, I'd get kinda bored looking at my 12th fake glowing butterfly and third glowing alligator . . . at some point my brain would kinda recognize the whole thing as being artificial, I think you need a little grounding in reality so that you can swallow the fantastical stuff.
    Very well said! Hits the nail on the head for what is immersive about Fantasyland, Frontierland and Adventureland, and artificial about Avatarland.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
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  15. #75

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    The mythological characters part of the park has been with it since the planning phase of this park. This is why we have a Unicorn parking lot and a dragon in the logo.
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