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  1. #121

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    How about a nighttime view of the land's entrance? Here.
    Mark

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  2. #122

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    For those if u who are excited about the land here is a video about it from d23.


    AVATAR at Disney’s Animal Kingdom Will Transport, Transform Guests « Disney Parks Blog

  3. #123

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by mark View Post
    How about a nighttime view of the land's entrance? Here.
    Looks visually stunning...wonder how this all will play out
    The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
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  4. #124

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Oh, as for IP, it IS inherently IMPORTANT, IF the property is substantially popular. It will create the the initial fan fervor and marketing that cannot complete with an IP that no one cares about. No one really cares about the world of avatar, AND THAT is the telling feature., BUT TONS of FANS care about the Star Wars Universe and the World of Harry Potter. Of course you have to have substance behind the project too. And WW of Harry Potter proved it on BOTH counts.
    You can base a ride on a movie nobody's ever seen (Song of the South) or one of the worst movies of all time (Transformers) - what ultimately matters is the quality of the attraction. Because in the long run after the 'Star Wars Weekends' fanboys go home and people stop caring about the movie, you have to please everyone else who's just looking to experience high-quality theme park attractions and environments with their families. For example-nobody other than me goes to Disney's Hollywood Studios because they're a huge Indiana Jones fan. And nobody in a 2 hour line for Splash Mountain knows or cares that its based on a movie. In this case, Avatar clearly isn't an exceptionally terrible movie and it's definitely not one that nobody's ever seen or cares about, so that helps, but its not everything.


    One of the problems with bringing in bigger franchises that people might care about for longer is that they don't quite fit the narrow themes of WDW's parks (that's why "adventure" was a brilliant theme park concept for Universal and DHS is becoming more about experiencing movies vs. moviemaking). Animal Kingdom is overdue for expansion. Name a franchise that's more successful than Avatar and also jives with Animal Kingdom's theme as well as Avatar does. As Disney fanatics we'd prefer original attractions (or even attractions based on Disney classics like The Lion King and Pocahontas), but the theme park industry is intent on franchise-based attractions after the success of WWoHP and Carsland. Further, the opening of Avatarland will coincide with the release of sequels from a director with a track record of producing very successful films--maybe James Cameron lead Disney on to plans for sequels that match or surpass the original's aesthetic achievements and/or don't have totally hackneyed scripts.
    Last edited by WDWorldly; 10-14-2013 at 08:20 AM.

  5. #125

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Nowhere are fans clamoring for a 2nd movie of Avatar realm. No one is buying their merchandise, standing on edge for the latest news from Jerry Bruckheimer. That’s not the case with Star Wars, though.
    I don't think these Avatar sequels will be as good as the first for the simple reason that the first Avatar film was sort of a one-off, a one hit wonder like many of Cameron's films. Titanic was a great film, but folks didn't want a sequel. The whole Avatar appeal orbited the new world of Pandora, and the battle of futuristic G.I. Joe forces against the blue people. When a sequel comes out, I don't think that guests will be awed with Pandora anymore.

    Cameron knows this and he kinda hinted about other worlds in the Pandora system, and getting to see Pandora's seas . . . but when George Lucas did Star Wars, he already had a whole galaxy of characters and worlds, and a long term story arc. Cameron has to give us a reason to go back to Pandora a second time, probably the military will come back and start trouble. Avatar survived on a moderately compelling story which ended, and amazing visuals.

    It seems that Avatarland will try to survive on amazing visuals alone, after a while, a fake plastic plant with a purple light in it becomes just a fake plastic plant with a purple light in it.

    I actually didn't want to visit Pandora when I saw the film as it was pure CGI, and it didn't look realistic, just made for 3-D.

    Here's some IPs Disney could use in Animal Kingdom:

    Alice in Wonderland (Alice had a lot of 'animals')
    Dragons, i.e. Maleficent.
    Dinosaurs. Pixar is coming out with a Dinosaur film at some point.
    20,000 leagues under the sea
    Brave . . . why not a Scotland mini-land with a bear encounter, a Brave dark ride, and a Brave restaurant?
    Oz the Great and Powerful had monkeys
    Jungle Book
    Lady and the Tramp
    Bambi
    The Beast from Beauty and the Beast
    Pocahontas
    Tarzan
    Pooh
    101 Dalmatians
    Princess and the Frog
    and probably more . . .
    Star Wars certainly has tons of animals, and a Wookie homeworld would also "fit" in Animal Kingdom, perhaps even more than Avatar land.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 10-14-2013 at 08:34 AM.

  6. #126

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWorldly View Post
    Name a franchise that's more successful than Avatar and also jives with Animal Kingdom's theme as well as Avatar does.
    I think some of the worlds of Star Wars could fit into Animal Kingdom, if you go with the premise that Avatar belongs there. Disney's original 101 Dalmatians made more at the domestic box office, when you adjust for inflation, than Avatar did in this country. Not saying that 101 Dalmatians should be put in Animal Kingdom, but a lot of Avatar's success was that it was one of the first CGI/3-D films.

    http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

    Remember when the first Matrix film came out? People were raving about the special effects? Now Matrix is parodied, and the second and third films weren't artistically there.

    What about Alice in Wonderland? Burton's version did great box office, and Disney had done their own film, and Disney is coming out with a sequel. Alice will make more for Disney box office wise than Avatar as Disney doesn't own Avatar, and Avatar isn't a successful franchise yet as only one hit film has been made.

    I think Bob Iger figured that he'd go with a big box office hit and turn it into a land, but some box office hits might not work well in a theme park, such as Titanic. If Titanic is such a big film, why don't people want a Titanic land with Titanic walk around characters? Life of Pi was visually stunning, but don't expect to see it in a theme park anytime soon. Just because a film did great box office doesn't mean it will work as a theme park attraction/land, IMHO.

    Last time Disney did a "bioluminescent jungle/Fern Gully" type world it was for the Light Magic parade at Disneyland, and that didn't work out too well.

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    Last edited by chesirecat; 10-14-2013 at 08:37 AM.

  7. #127

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by mark View Post
    How about a nighttime view of the land's entrance? Here.
    They better have AA animals that run out and try to eat your ankles

  8. #128

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    I don't think these Avatar sequels will be as good as the first for the simple reason that the first Avatar film was sort of a one-off, a one hit wonder like many of Cameron's films.
    How many one hit wonders did he have? Terminator? Actually two blockbuster Terminators and many sequels (Terminator 3 and Salvation) and television spinoffs.

    Titanic was a great film, but folks didn't want a sequel.
    That's because the ship sank.

    Here's some IPs Disney could use in Animal Kingdom
    I love how you included Star Wars. What's up with that? Star Wars is fine, but Avatar's Pandora just doesn't make the cut.

    Star Wars is not about environmentalism. The whole plot of about a bad trade deal. Star Wars trashes the enviroment. Death Star destroys whole planets. Entire societies are destroyed.

  9. #129

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Star Wars and Indiana Jones are cultural icons, rich with storytelling and filled with famous and beloved characters. Their scope extends to multiple times and places and they are infinitely adaptable to the theme park medium. They bear no relationship to the flash-in-the-pan eye candy of Avatar, a film filled with characters that no one remembers in a "been there, seen that" world.
    Anyone who has seen the sequels will not agree that this is true. Star Wars prequels were the worse I've seen and completely forgettable. The last Indiana Jones sequel was a mess and it was directed by the famous Steven Spielberg and he made a horrible movie.

    The criticism of Avatar on just being eye candy hides the fact it had a solid story. You could fault the characters, but the storyline is quite passable. Any movie that had an excellent plot had weak characters. Either its strong stories or strong characters. You hardly have both.

    Another key difference is that in terms of innovation, creativity, and the depth and experience of their talent pool, the Disney of today is not remotely the Disney that opened Star Tours in 1987 and Indiana Jones Adventure in 1995.
    That era has come and gone a long time ago and Eisner became old and crusted when the Disney orgination became long on safe entertainment and it didn't push the envelop. Eisner never bothered to update Star Tours when the attraction aged out.

    Bringing in outside IPs is inherently a bad thing for a company that has the reputation of being the world leader in theme park innovation and creativity, when it becomes increasingly apparent that paint-by-numbers copying of IPs, owned or leased, is all that they're capable of doing.
    Hmmm... Good in one thing, but not the other? World leader or not? I see Disney in bringing James Cameron's Avatar as playing in the big leagues. No one can just hire James Cameron and expect him to stay without offering something comparable. Don't you see how James Cameron can elevate Disney's game?

  10. #130

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    I haven't seen anyone post it on MiceChat, but over at WDWNewsToday Tom has a new post up this afternoon with video footage of Cameron talking about Avatar and Joe Rohde is in the video too.

    * Cameron addresses the D23 crowd in Tokyo
    * says he never dreamed he'd have the chance to build something in a Disney park
    * says that people have been asking him if they can visit Pandora after seeing the movie

    * Then it shows some footage from Avatar, the movie, and concept art of the park attraction...including nighttime illustrations of how it will look and also a new concept art ground level painting showing guests walking through another corner of the rockwork and bioluminiscent forest.

    * Joe Rohde speaks next. He has a bizarre earring in his left ear, which drags his whole earlobe several inches lower and stretches it out. I don't know if that's an Avatar thing or if he really looks like that all the time. It was strange though.

    * There's video of Cameron, Rohde, and someone else standing in front of a simulator showing it zooming over the animals in Avatar and also through the trees, riding a banshee. It is very clearly not just a Soarin' clone...this is something new and different with more thrill factor.

    * They also showed video inside a design studio where they were working on the bioluminiscent plants, getting them to work with lots of fiber optics

    Everything looked really far along and very gorgeous.

    The thing I'm struck with, though, is "How are they going to maintain all this when they build it?". Sometimes, I think the Imagineers don't understand reality and how badly things weather in Florida and how rough the guests are on things. Like, all of the Avatar plants and rock formations are supposed to "interact with guests"...but I just know that a lot of the stuff in those areas will be broken quickly and then never replaced because no one thought about a maintenance plan or proper budget.

    OR, Imagineering does do plans like this but then an executive later cuts those budgets out, leaving the attractions to have their little details break away. I almost wish that Imaingeering didn't even attempt to do some of the complicated interactive things because then there would be no fancy stuff to break down and remain broken forever.

  11. #131

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by BradyNBradleysMom View Post
    ......
    * Joe Rohde speaks next. He has a bizarre earring in his left ear, which drags his whole earlobe several inches lower and stretches it out. I don't know if that's an Avatar thing or if he really looks like that all the time. It was strange though.

    [........]
    Joe always has his 'signature' earring, it's not just an affectation for the sake of the Avatar project - had it since the opening of Animal Kingdom when he started showing up in publicity material more, and likely for years before that.

  12. #132

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    "How are they going to maintain all this when they build it?".
    I expect the ride portion to be indoors. Much of Avatar featured lighted plant life. You can't have this outdoors when you won't be able to see a lighted plant until dark.

    Whether things will break down or not, this does not preclude whether they will build it.

  13. #133

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    I can see them building a boat ride by going into a cave of sorts- with a queue which winds farther down a darker and darker path until you arrive to board.
    Mark

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  14. #134

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Here's some IPs Disney could use in Animal Kingdom:

    Alice in Wonderland (Alice had a lot of 'animals')
    Dragons, i.e. Maleficent.
    Dinosaurs. Pixar is coming out with a Dinosaur film at some point.
    20,000 leagues under the sea
    Brave . . . why not a Scotland mini-land with a bear encounter, a Brave dark ride, and a Brave restaurant?
    Oz the Great and Powerful had monkeys
    Jungle Book
    Lady and the Tramp
    Bambi
    The Beast from Beauty and the Beast
    Pocahontas
    Tarzan
    Pooh
    101 Dalmatians
    Princess and the Frog
    and probably more . . .
    Star Wars certainly has tons of animals, and a Wookie homeworld would also "fit" in Animal Kingdom, perhaps even more than Avatar land.
    If just anything with animals or creatures in it fits, then what truly distinguishes the park? That is part of Walt Disney World's problem, everything is just becoming a replication of the same thing, some branded attractions being built without consideration to the larger goals of the park. Editing is a big part of storytelling and not everything should fit.

  15. #135

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    Re: Avatar Land First Look

    The concept art looks pretty, but it still has no place in the Animal Kingdom.

    Aliens aren't animals. They might be, but since we haven't had any need to classify extraterrestrial life, we don't know if they would be classified using the same taxonomy groups as life on Earth. The fact that all life forms on Pandora are literally connected through that weird bio-internet thing a new structure for classification would seem prudent.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

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