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  1. #16

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Watched that "Some Jerk" video.. just terrible. I didn't care for the humour (some of it was unpleasant) and then he criticised Danny Kaye's 'Hooray for the 21st Century' - just no!


    Anyway... I agree with most of what's been said in this thread, there's a lot that can be done in EPCOT, its become very watered down.

    If it had a DCA makeover budget, then I'm all for adding perhaps two more countries, maybe an attraction to an existing and then some other addition to Future World.


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  2. #17

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    I'd love to see them add Brazil, Egypt, and India to the World Showcase, update World of Energy, and completely re-do Imagination with something inventive and creative (and with both Figment and Dreamfinder as part of the attraction).

  3. #18

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo Mouse View Post
    I'd love to see them add Brazil, Egypt, and India to the World Showcase, update World of Energy, and completely re-do Imagination with something inventive and creative (and with both Figment and Dreamfinder as part of the attraction).
    totally agree with brazil and India but we already have a northern african representative in Morocco. if three is the number we are striving for I would rather see Australia or new Zealand.

  4. #19

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    India and Australia could be incredible.
    ~ Erik

  5. #20

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    I would like to see at least 2 countries added to the World Showcase, and rework future world...

    They need to put something back into the Wonders of Life Pavilion, something anything is better than an idle pavilion with NOTHING in it!

    I'd like them to rework the Imagination and the Universe of Energy pavilions and put something that's at least worthy of a "wow" factor...they can keep the "funducational" aspects with keeping that "wow" factor they've done it before..

    If that's done or even 2/3'rds of that list completed I will be more than happy and I think EPCOT will once again be nearer it's former glory than it's been for the last 5+ years
    The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
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  6. #21

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    I do get the feeling that these days a new World Showcase pavilion has become one of those fan things.. just like bringing back the PeopleMover et al. I know its not something that would sell tickets but dang it, it would be so awesome for it to actually happen.


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  7. #22

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    The big problem with Epcot is the same one Tomorrowland has. If you want to showcase the Future, you'd better be ready to spend massive amounts of money. Come to think of it, Disney can't seem to improve a single land (TL) constantly, why would they even try to do so with a gigantic park?

    I loved, loved, loved EPCOT Center as a kid, but I can see why people get bored with it - it was allowed to became stale, and IIRC, there were more and better attractions when I was young(er). I specifically remember Journey into Imagination as the best pavillion of them all. I visited 10 years ago and was underwhelmed at the changes, and again, IIRC, it had less things to do inside!

  8. #23

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    totally agree with brazil and India but we already have a northern african representative in Morocco. if three is the number we are striving for I would rather see Australia or new Zealand.
    I picked Egypt because I think a Sphinx and pyramids, etc would make for a cool pavilion. Good call on Australia, that would be another good one.

  9. #24

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Well seeings that it seems the ship has sailed as far as Australia for Animal Kingdom goes, then I'd love to see it added to World Showcase.


    "We're not trying to entertain the critics ... I'll take my chances with the public." -
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  10. #25

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    I think they should schedule replacing a ride every three years at EPCOT. It would still take 15+ears to get each done, but it would be an improvement. Innovations that should be done every year. Close EAST and renovate with the newest up coming tech and leave WEST open. Then open East and do the same in WEST, and so on and so on. This way Innovations is as it should be ALWAYS show casing the newest thing yet to come out and is always being updated with one closed and one open.

    Sure it would cost money.... what doesn't but it would certainly increase the draw to that park. They see a need for more restaurants (Mexico and Morocco) as reservation are need MONTHS in advance, and so add those to bring in more money. Updating and working to stay AHEAD of the tech curve is what EPCOT should be all about.

  11. #26

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    I think they should schedule replacing a ride every three years at EPCOT. It would still take 15+ears to get each done, but it would be an improvement. Innovations that should be done every year. Close EAST and renovate with the newest up coming tech and leave WEST open. Then open East and do the same in WEST, and so on and so on. This way Innovations is as it should be ALWAYS show casing the newest thing yet to come out and is always being updated with one closed and one open.

    Sure it would cost money.... what doesn't but it would certainly increase the draw to that park. They see a need for more restaurants (Mexico and Morocco) as reservation are need MONTHS in advance, and so add those to bring in more money. Updating and working to stay AHEAD of the tech curve is what EPCOT should be all about.
    I like your idea Maddogjoe. I'd take the same model and make it more aggressive and do the ride replacements every 2 years. But yeah, the park as a whole, especially Future World, needs a HUGE overhaul.

  12. #27

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    It's totally jumped the shark. When my partner and I (DLR vets) went to WDW last May, Epcot was a gigantic unexpected disappointment. Like, almost a let's just stand here and cry disappointment. I wrote about that in my trip report on my blog, and it's one of the things I got massive blowback about. But it was what it was.

    My mom went to Epcot in the early 80s when it was new and loved it, and came back with lots of swag extolling the new park's virtues. It sounded awesome to me. For years and years, having not been to WDW since the 70s, when I thought about visiting WDW, the highlight I expected to be Epcot.

    I think a lot of the press, and discussion, and most importantly memories that Epcot fans share in online forums about the place, much of that I think is based on what Epcot used to be, not what it has become. On another Disney fan board, someone once talked about taking a friend to visit MK for the first time. He had always told her how awesome it was, but to her it just felt like a not very special Six Flags park. He was shocked until he realized that she had never experienced MK in the 70s and 80s, when it was inarguably a better experience and was in better shape. Trying to see MK through her eyes, he was disappointed to realize he couldn't really disagree with her.

    I think Epcot is like that. Longtime fans love their memories of the bygone days. I was brought up on those memories and stories. But as it exists now, Epcot doesn't live up to those memories very well, and lots of fans are too close to the issue to really see the park as it is now.

    I expected incredible, up-to-date, educational, mind-blowing Worlds Fair-like attractions in Future World and amazing, immersive cultural experiences in World Showcase. I know it used to be like that. I love those memories others have shared with me of it like that.

    But in May, with the exception of the wonderfully updated Spaceship: Earth, most of what we encountered in Future World was outdated (Ellen's *1990s* Energy Adventure, Living with the Land), educationally neutered (The Seas, Test Track II), or carnival-esque (virtual roller coasters in Innovations) attractions, some of which were obviously in not a great state of repair (the Seas tank was dirty, the space station was full of dust and not rotating in Mission: Space.) When we made it to World Showcase, the cultural vibe we expected felt like not much more than drinking and shopping in a well-themed mall.

    That's just not what everything I ever heard about Epcot was based on. It shouldn't have been like that. We spent most of a day there, and then took the monorail to MK for dinner because we just couldn't take the out-of-date drink-fest vibe anymore.

    I know lots of people love Epcot very much. I would love someday to be one of them. But this just isn't what Epcot is supposed to be, and it was very much not fun to visit after a couple of decades waiting to get there.
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  13. #28

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuhbau View Post
    for the masses, education does not equal fun. People don't pay the big bucks to go to an educational seminar.
    That doesn't wash. People flocked to Epcot as it used to be. People aren't idiots, and people love to use their imaginations. That's how the entire Disney company came to be in the first place. (Because Walt Disney.)

    Epcot didn't change because no one went. It changed because TDO decided they needed to compete with Universal and Six Flags-type parks by amping down the education and amping up the characters and thrill factor. Now people still go--it's WDW and Epcot, they would go *anyway*--but they don't "get" the place.
    WDW 1973 Poly | WDW Jul 1977 offsite | DLR Jul 1988 offsite | DLP Apr 2000 offsite | DLR Apr 2002 PPH | DLR Sep 2002 HoJo | DLR Dec 2002 HoJo | DLR Apr 2003 HoJo | DLR Dec 2005 HoJo | DLR Mar 2013 HoJo | WDW May 2013 Pop | DLR Oct 2013 HoJo | Moving to L.A. 2014!

  14. #29

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Previously I said the EPCOT name should be changed. The more I think about it, the park should be named as Disney's World Showcase (DWS). Literally, the name fits.

    Future World should be no more. WDW should not get 2 Tomorrowlands. Instead, these pavilions are part of World Showcase as World's Fair Pavilions.

    The World Showcase portion will be remained as Country Pavilions.

    The problem is some World's Fair Pavilions are no longer relevant. They should be razed or repurposed. I propose the Imagination Pavilion be redesigned as a new country. This one is sitting nearest to the lagoon.

    The former food pavilion should be redesignated as a year round Food and Wine Pavilion since many events are held there.

    The many World's Fair Pavilions will have a more international flavor throughout. The former Innovations exhibit areas will have more international industry exhibits that focus on the environment or human improvement.

  15. #30

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    Re: The Epcot Conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by mikedoyleblogger View Post
    That doesn't wash. People flocked to Epcot as it used to be. People aren't idiots, and people love to use their imaginations. That's how the entire Disney company came to be in the first place. (Because Walt Disney.)

    Epcot didn't change because no one went. It changed because TDO decided they needed to compete with Universal and Six Flags-type parks by amping down the education and amping up the characters and thrill factor. Now people still go--it's WDW and Epcot, they would go *anyway*--but they don't "get" the place.
    You kind of just reinforced my point. In order to compete with Universal, Six Flags, Sea World, and even other Disney Parks it had to basically be dumbed down.

    There is plenty there to bring guests in, the issue is making them stay, and then come back again.

    Realistically, there is only so many times you can watch the Ellen Show or go on the banana boat cruise to learn about plants.

    I think the original ideals around EPCOT were great. It worked great when Disney had a monopoly on the area, but it doesn't anymore, and never will again.

    To your point though, Disney needs to do something. Either fully commit to the original ideals and make the park what it is and embrace it and make it the best it can be, even though itll be the least biggest draw of the 4 parks. Or revamp the entire park into something else.

    Either way its a huge huge budget theyd be looking at, which they currently do not have. So no changes are coming anytime soon.

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