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  1. #16

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    Please post photos of everything THAT'S BEAUTIFUL & FULLY FUNCTIONING at WDW or...

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVader View Post
    Nobody goes to Walt Disney World to see chipped paint or burnt out lightbulbs. They go to have a great time.
    Nobody goes to Six Flags to see chipped paint or burnt out lightbulbs. They go to have a great time.

    Nobody gets a Dell computer for its cutting edge design. They just want a computer that works reasonably well.

    Nobody stays at a Days Inn for quieter bathrooms next door, high thread count, or for industry leading customer service. They go for some place to crash.

    I think of Disney as an industry leader, not as a Six Flags, a Dell, or a Days Inn, and to remain the leader it must obsess over details that the average guest might not notice.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 04-27-2014 at 09:11 AM.

  2. #17

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    Please post photos of everything THAT'S BEAUTIFUL & FULLY FUNCTIONING at WDW or...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Steven View Post
    . . . The mythical standard of perfection is just that, a myth. There was no internet in the 80's where we had access to instant information, with photos to accompany, just by clicking a mouse.

    We are complaing about the wrong things with this topic. My feeling is if you see this stuff, you're missing the real intent of WDW.
    ...
    Have you been to Tokyo Disneyland or been on a Disney cruise?

    I liked your post, but I think you're missing one of the intentions of Walt Disney. He changed light bulbs on schedule BEFORE they burned out. I believe that if he were trying to be an environmentalist today, he'd have three CMS moving around the Magic Kingdom after sunset to replace light bulbs each night, and have another search for those spots of unacceptable darkness right after the park closed at night.

    Steve Jobs might have disagreed with you on perfectionism, but surprisingly I'm with you. But mistakes should be viewed as opportunities to respond to them better than anyone else would.

    An interview with Paul McCartney when he was in his astonishing Beatles period made me think that he was not a perfectionist, but was "merely" outstanding and prolific. Also contrast the 40-50-year careers of Robert Redford and his contemporary Warren Beatty. Redford was in twice as many movies, and more bad ones, but he was also in even more excellent films than the perfectionist (and impressive) Beatty, because Redford worked a lot and wasn't constipated by perfectionism.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 04-27-2014 at 09:12 AM.

  3. #18

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Kevin Yee has been documenting the "decline by degrees" on MiceAge/MiceChat for years. His evidence is in that body of work.
    My bad! You're right, LazyBoy970, as usual. Kevin Yee's efforts in recent years have been heroic for people like me who once viewed Disney parks as more inspired. Kevin might be to WDW what Al Lutz was to Disneyland before 2005, and I consider that a pretty great compliment.

    And Randy Savage, thanks for writing such an excellent post on page 1!

  4. #19

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    I was in WDW just this past February, and while one of the Carnotauruses (sorry if that spelling is incorrect!) wasn't working during our week-long stay, everything else seemed to be running just fine! There was even a new effect we'd never seen.

    We also did Lunch with an Imagineer, and met Alex Carruthers, who told us that paint chips on certain rides because chemicals in sunscreen break it down. But, he also said they're pretty good with keeping up with it.

  5. #20

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by LivTC View Post
    We also did Lunch with an Imagineer, and met Alex Carruthers, who told us that paint chips on certain rides because chemicals in sunscreen break it down. But, he also said they're pretty good with keeping up with it.
    Walt Disney Imagineering is not responsible for maintaining paint and the show quality issues go well into areas no guests are touching.

  6. #21

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    jcruise86 asked a reasonable question, he wasn't drumming up a problem nor exacerbating any situation. I am blown away to see so many apologists stepping up to put jcruise86 on the defensive. Yes, we go to a park to have a good time. No, no one goes there INTENDING to see odd things but YES, we notice them. If you really like DLR and WDW then maybe you'd be on the side of those hoping for the best, not those sweeping it under the rug and putting guys like jcruise86 on the defensive for just asking.

    Something I didn't get a pic of last weekend ( but sure will NOW ) was a fiberglass post in DL where it had worn away so much there was a hole on the edge of it. An exposed fiberglass hole about 4" high where people put their hands. Strands of sharp fiberglass. I'm so sorry I didn't get a pic of it now but like some of you said, we don't go to look at broken things. Of course, we also don't go to run our hand along a post at the level our hand would reach at and pull back a splinter of fiberglass stuck in it either.

    Also, no, the photo wasn't shopped. Here's another one as I was driving in. I took these because I was very surprised to see something just hanging like that. It seemed so out of character for the resort.

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  7. #22

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    How bout some video proof. Found this video comparision of Disneyland's Toon Town after 20 yrs of operation. some degradation of this land addressed in the video.

    A romp through forgotten Mickey's Toontown - YouTube

  8. #23

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    I once started a thread about how the Clock at Magic Kingdom's entrance had stopped at a certain time. For days, the clock was stopped, and not moving. It was the first thing I noticed on the very first day of my vacation, back in 2009. I was taking the Ferry Across the Seven Seas Lagoon, and it was one of the first things that I saw. Quite frankly it bugged me.

    Boy was I read the riot act for feeling the way I did. Never did I once say that it ruined my vacation. However, it was disappointing to me that the folks at Disney didn't fix that clock sooner. Or at least, cover the clock in some way, as to not point out the lack of maintenance.

    Sure Disney is held to a high standard. They set the standard, and they are definitely slipping. Should we care? You decide that for yourself, of course.

  9. #24

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Today Kevin Yee questioned the diligence of Walt Disney World in maintaining its parks.

    I want to see very recent photos of Main Street lights to see how many (if any) are out,
    photos of chipped paint, or of recently painted things,
    and photos of monorails held literally held together by tape, or of clean, well-maintained monorails.

    I'd like photographic PROOF, Micechatters, please. (Or apologies to RISC-Rasulo, Iger, Crofton & Staggs.)
    Lets see YOUR pics, your videos, your proof. When was the last time you were there is see such stuff as bad as you always like to point out...............

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by redrhino54 View Post
    Let[']s see YOUR pics, your videos, your proof. When was the last time you were there is see [sic] such stuff as bad as you always like to point out...............
    "Always"?

    I almost never take photos in theme parks because my parents, who've travelled to all seven continents (I've only been to three) have tons of photos and I've always been bored by them. They seem to distract from the moment. And if I did use the camera on my phone more at Disney parks, I wouldn't want to focus on the negative while I'm there. I'd probably obsess about photographing the cats at Disneyland.

    I haven't been to WDW in about 12 years, (and I bolded that, RedRhino54, in case this post has too many words) mostly because
    Disney
    hasn't
    inspired me
    to go there
    in a long time.
    Before that time, from 1972 through 2002 I went about 18 times, including once during each summer from 1972 through 1982. I'll finally get back in 2015, barring an emergency, as my wife's birthday present to me. I wish Disney inspired me to go to WDW more often. A better-than-ever Carousel of Progress and a different Soarin' film than Disneyland's would be a nice place to start, Mr. Staggs & Mr. Iger.

    Redrhino54, you could make a strong argument that I have no business posting on the WDW section since I haven't been there in the last 12 years, but if you read (re-read?) my first post on this thread, I just asked for proof. You didn't seem like you even read the sentences of mine that you quoted before your brief post. I had trouble believing all of Kevin Yee's claims this week, especially about parts of the monorail repaired with tape, and because I haven't been there in so long, I wanted to see via photos that show if WDW is in bad or good shape. I feel like a mom who put her kid adoption 12 years ago and now spies on her.

    I don't read many complaints about Tokyo Disneyland or the Disney Cruise Line, and having experienced both including a 6-night Disney cruise in the summer of 2013, I think the reason I've been reading more criticisms (including ones from Roy Disney, Jr. around the end of 2003) about some specific parts of the Disney Company than others is usually because they've been earned. Apart from Tomorrowland, people have seemed pretty upbeat about the Disneyland Resort since its 50th anniversary in 2005, but Micechat/Al Lutz was not so positive about Disneyland in the years immediately before 2005, from what I understand. (Disneyland Paris, might have an even higher percentage of disgruntled former fans than WDW--see their recent petition to Iger. I hope that Ratatouille's new Paris area helps improve the worst Disney park ever, Disney's Paris Studios park.)

    If you've been following Walt Disney World since 1971, it does seem like it's been coasting over the last 12 or so years, especially if you count the new E-ticket attractions. I think that the Magic Kingdom's impressive, world record, 17-million-a-year attendance is challenging because it reduces Disney's incentive to invest as much as they would if they could still fit a lot more into the MK each year. I want WDW to reflect Walt Disney's ideal, that "Disneyland will never be finished." His expanding and improving of Disneyland from its 1955 opening through his death in 1966 is pretty extraordinary, and apart from DCA's Carsland, there doesn't seem to be enough extraordinary Walt-like growth lately at Disney's American parks. We might not even be planning to go to Florida if my daughter didn't have a strong desire to see the growing Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Orlando.

    Anyway, I spend too much time in the WDW discussions of Micechat because going to WDW was what I looked forward to most when I was a kid, and I'm hoping it will be as extraordinary for my daughter. I'm concerned that from what I've read it might not be and problems can't be solved till they are recognized. We've been to Disneyland about 80 times and some of those days dominate a "ten best days of my life" list. I want our trip to Walt Disney World to be just as wonderful.

    George Will wrote that the golden age of baseball is whatever was taking place when you were 13 years old. I expect that you defend the recent WDW with your rushed, ineloquent, but enthusiastic causticity because you didn't experience it in the 1970s through the early 80s, you haven't been to Tokyo Disneyland or on a Disney cruise, and you haven't spent that much time at Disneyland before the early 1990s or after 2004, and you don't appreciate that Disney outdoor entertainment can be done better that WDW has been since Frank Wells' death and Michael Eisner's decline/and the rise of his followers Paul Pressler, Jay Rasulo, and Thomas Staggs.

    After the recent (March of 2014) earthquake in Southern California, I was one of the first Micechatters on an earthquake thread on Micechat's Disneyland section. As expected, I found a lot of nice folks writing with great interest. When I went to two news sites, I saw some comments by anonymous (I'm Tom Sinsky, btw, nice to meet you.) writers who wrote about how they wanted Californians to die. Sorry to anyone who thinks I've moved Micechat toward that direction at times.

    That written, I'm thrilled to introduce RedRhino54's "Ah ha, you haven't been to Disney World in 12 years!" post
    .

  11. #26

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Have you been to Tokyo Disneyland or been on a Disney cruise?

    I liked your post, but I think you're missing one of the intentions of Walt Disney. He changed light bulbs on schedule BEFORE they burned out. I believe that if he were trying to be an environmentalist today, he'd have three CMS moving around the Magic Kingdom after sunset to replace light bulbs each night, and have another search for those spots of unacceptable darkness right after the park closed at night.

    Steve Jobs might have disagreed with you on perfectionism, but surprisingly I'm with you. But mistakes should be viewed as opportunities to respond to them better than anyone else would.

    An interview with Paul McCartney when he was in his astonishing Beatles period made me think that he was not a perfectionist, but was "merely" outstanding and prolific. Also contrast the 40-50-year careers of Robert Redford and his contemporary Warren Beatty. Redford was in twice as many movies, and more bad ones, but he was also in even more excellent films than the perfectionist (and impressive) Beatty, because Redford worked a lot and wasn't constipated by perfectionism.

    I find it sad that you seem to start so many more negative threads than positive ones.

    As for the OP, "in the old days" Disney was a compny run with the idea of a place for families to have fun together. Today it is a money machine. Shareholders don't care how much fun families are having. They only care how much profit they are adding to their portfolios. With that in mind the "company" is run to produce those results.

    Are there things that need to be tweaked and maintained better? Sure, but that is everywhere in the world. Some are better at it than others, but all have to deal with it. Due to the environment as well as the numbers WDW may be hit a bit harder than the other parks and so you can spot more areas that need work. Still I think they do a great job of maintaining the parks. I know when I was there 6 months ago I didn't notice any glaring issues. I still had the great time that I always seem to do when I try to get there every 18 months or so.

    I understand this "crusade" some people seem to NEED to be on in making the park maintain themselves as Walt wanted, however this is a much different world than the one Walt lived in. Would it be different if Walt was still alive? Who knows but as he isn't nor will he be I don't think it's a standard anyone should hold WDW to.

  12. #27

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    As for the OP, "in the old days" Disney was a compny run with the idea of a place for families to have fun together. Today it is a money machine. Shareholders don't care how much fun families are having. They only care how much profit they are adding to their portfolios. With that in mind the "company" is run to produce those results.
    Quality products and making money are not mutually exclusive. The current culture at Walt Disney World is one the embraces money by any means, regardless of the impact to the product or its long term viability. Whittling away at what you unique is no way to run any business, and even worse when others have finally started to replicate that uniqueness.

  13. #28

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    Please post photos of everything THAT'S BEAUTIFUL & FULLY FUNCTIONING at WDW or...

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    I find it sad that you seem to start so many more negative threads than positive ones.

    As for the OP, "in the old days" Disney was a compny run with the idea of a place for families to have fun together. Today it is a money machine. Shareholders don't care how much fun families are having. They only care how much profit they are adding to their portfolios. With that in mind the "company" is run to produce those results.

    Are there things that need to be tweaked and maintained better? Sure, but that is everywhere in the world . . . Would it be different if Walt was still alive? Who knows but as he isn't nor will he be I don't think it's a standard anyone should hold WDW to.
    Maddogjoe, please prove that I've started more negative than positive ones.

    List them
    all with links and organize them into positive, neutral and negative.

    Carefully reread my post #1 on this thread
    and put this thread in the neutral category.

    If you had the character to back up your accusation without resorting to an incomplete listing of threads I've started, you'd find that you're incorrect and would owe me an apology. Then I would accept that and we'd go and ride Small World together.


    Maybe you're attracted to my "negative" threads (where I argue for positive improvements, btw) because you like to see yourself as fighting the positive fight.

    In fairness to you, you're not alone. One Micechatter was introduced to me at a Knott's Scary Farm's Micechat meet and when he was told I was Jcruise86, he said, "You seem nicer in person" then turned and walked away. And when I met the leader of another Disney website at a Disneyana convention, and politely told her why I thought the Big Thunder BBQ was overpriced when it first opened (the prices were changed), she was not happy and said, "You're Jcruise86!"

    As far as your post above, you seem to be defending mediocrity because you believe it's an inevitable consequence of shareholder pressure. You wrote, "Shareholders don't care how much fun families are having." I'm a shareholder and I care because IF families weren't having fun, then Disney would be in trouble--especially in the long run. And I'd care because something that used to mean as much to some kids as their birthdays would be dead.

    Now enough about me, let's (please) see some very recent photographic evidence that Walt Disney World is still one of the most beautiful man-made places on Earth, or is a reflection of capitalist America's demise. One light bulb that's out won't do this.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 04-27-2014 at 09:15 AM.

  14. #29

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    How would you know "mediocrity" runs in WDW? YOU HAVENT BEEN THERE IN 12 FRICKIN YEARS !? You only read about whats there, and not experienced it yourself.....lol....

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    Re: POST PHOTOS of burned-out lights, chipped paint, monorails taped together, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by redrhino54 View Post
    How would you know "mediocrity" runs in WDW? YOU HAVENT BEEN THERE IN 12 FRICKIN YEARS !? You only read about whats there, and not experienced it yourself.....lol....
    Which is why I started this thread. I want to see proof about WDW's decline or continued magnificence. What I want more than anything is to be convinced that it's going to be as great as ever when I do go. Also, I think a lot of Micechatters love experiencing Disney parks vicariously--and giving opinions we're unqualified to give is one of the joys of a free society in the age of the internet.


    P.S. Your post #29 should have been #26 to follow my #25. Oh well. Peace out.

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