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  1. #16

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by PlutoHasFleas View Post
    Out of the 32 theme park employees arrested, five were from Universal, two from Sea World, and the remaining 25 were from Disney. Disney is having the biggest problem with this issue, and they have not changed anything in there hiring process to combat it. It's not like all of this happened just yesterday. These numbers have accumulated over the past 8 years.
    lol, nough said

    1) disney is exponentially larger then those properties, how is it by any stretch a fair comparison? just to do things in a rather crude manner disney has 5 parks, universal 2, seaworld 1.5 technically. disney has 25 hotels, universal 4, sea world none.. not to mention all of the activities disney offers that neither of the other two locations do. disneyworld has roughly 60,000 employees on property plus other team members from different companies working on site whereas universal has a mere 12,000 by comparison. considering the massive difference in employee population all of these places are actually averaging roughly the same totals so i suggest you go tell those other parks to adjust their practices as well.

    2) again you still have not suggested HOW these hiring processes should change... how can disney do any more then they already have while remaining legal? do you suggest they start doing random house visits and computer sweeps of their employees personal belongings... thats called an invasion of privacy.

    look I'm not standing up for the action here because people who even consider that crime or absolutely despicable and need to be removed as swiftly as possible, but to suggest disney is in some way at fault here or in the wrong is just plain silly.

  2. #17

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by PlutoHasFleas View Post
    First of all, no one has the "right" to work at Disney.

    Disney can search as extensive as you suggest, but they could also employ such tactics as using computer analyzed polygraphs during the hiring process, which are proven to be more accurate than the old squiggly line and man watching the needle jump method. Modern polygraphs can monitor changes in body temperature, perspiration, breathing and other bodily functions to make an accurate assessment to wether the person is being honest.

    They need to do something.
    lol so your suggestion is that disney is at fault because they are not yet utilizing a method in their hiring process that is not yet legal and is only a proposed bill in congress??? how exactly does that make any sense. furthermore I never said anyone had the "right to work at disney" but they do have rights afforded to them by you know like the law and the constitution that state they are entitled to personal privacy and that employers can only do so much before they are violating said privacy. I agree in catching pedophiles but we don't need to revoke everyones right to privacy to do so.

    at the end of the day as I suggested before the news surrounding disney just hasn't been that bad, just silly sensationalist headlines they brush off like nothing. its making mountains out of molehills.

  3. #18

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    lol so your suggestion is that disney is at fault because they are not yet utilizing a method in their hiring process that is not yet legal and is only a proposed bill in congress??? how exactly does that make any sense.
    First, I do not find anything humorous about this topic.

    Before the most recent sting operation, Disney has known about the 21 previous employees that have slipped through the cracks. They know that they have been employing sexual predators for years. It is only now once the media steps up and says something that congress will do something about it. Why didn't Disney send lobbyists to Washington to have something done about this? Maybe it's because of the mentality expressed in what you just said:

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    the news surrounding disney just hasn't been that bad, just silly sensationalist headlines they brush off like nothing. its making mountains out of molehills.
    You comparing sexual predators being paid by Disney to be on their property to "molehills" and suggesting that they should just brush this off like it's nothing makes me cringe. Unfortunately, it is obvious that this is the same mentality of the Disney company. Otherwise, they would have taken steps to have things changed a long time ago.

  4. #19

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    furthermore I never said anyone had the "right to work at disney" but they do have rights afforded to them by you know like the law and the constitution that state they are entitled to personal privacy and that employers can only do so much before they are violating said privacy. I agree in catching pedophiles but we don't need to revoke everyones right to privacy to do so.
    I am assuming you are not an American because you have no idea what you are talking about. The US constitution says nothing about personal privacy. The Bill of Rights has this to say about privacy:

    Amendment I
    (Privacy of Beliefs)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    Amendment III
    (Privacy of the Home)
    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


    Amendment IV
    (Privacy of the Person and Possessions)
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    The only law that says anything about privacy from a potential employer is this Employee Polygraph Protection Act, which should have been amended to permit the use of polygraphs on any prospective employees who care for or supervise or interact with unsupervised children on a frequent basis. Disney should have been the one to initiate this change, but instead they swept it under the rug.

  5. #20

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    The rate of Disney employees arrested for child molestation or other crimes (the source of this sensationalism) per thousand is lower than the rate for the general population at large.

    Disney has already created a situation where your child is *less* at risk from abuse than they are outside the park, and this - even presented as an indictment of the parks - is numerical proof.

    None of these cases involved actual actions against a guest or child on Disney property. The only two cases that involved Disney property at all - in eight years - were possession of child pornography.

    What more does Disney need to do? I don't ask this flippantly - polygraphs are illegal and unreliable, there's a limit to how much investigation you can do to an innocent person, Disney's already lowered the rate of incidents to below the general population rate - but in all seriousness, what more is expected? Worn cameras mounted to multiple locations on every employee? Blood pressure sensors and brain scans to ensure no untoward arousal? Paid sheriff's deputies standing next to each employee?

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try to minimize the risk of bad people doing bad things. But when you're already doing better than the society that's criticizing you, what more SHOULD be expected?
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  6. #21

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by PlutoHasFleas View Post
    I am assuming you are not an American because you have no idea what you are talking about. The US constitution says nothing about personal privacy. The Bill of Rights has this to say about privacy:

    Amendment I
    (Privacy of Beliefs)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    Amendment III
    (Privacy of the Home)
    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


    Amendment IV
    (Privacy of the Person and Possessions)
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    The only law that says anything about privacy from a potential employer is this Employee Polygraph Protection Act, which should have been amended to permit the use of polygraphs on any prospective employees who care for or supervise or interact with unsupervised children on a frequent basis. Disney should have been the one to initiate this change, but instead they swept it under the rug.
    lol I said they have rights afforded to them in the constitution, I didn't specify directly that the constitution affords those rights to privacy however and you clearly agree with me there are quite a few laws in place that protect ones privacy. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my previous statement and for that I'm at fault however please don't question my aptitude on the subject of the political sciences as I actual study that topic at a top 15 global university. I think I'm more then qualified to comment on the subject. fact of the matter is employers are in a position where they can only lawfully ask for certain things of their prospective employees. it protects privacy and helps prevent profiling, thats just a fact that we have to live with in society and I'm more then happy with that, because I would never want to be violated like that with personal information being taken by anyone at any time without my knowledge. I'm surprised as an american you aren't more concerned about this considering your government is capable of tracking and recording you at any given time for essentially no reason and you would never know about it. at the end of the day outside of this one prospective bill anything else that could possibly be enacted to help prevent this from occurring in the future would violate a current law and that would be severely overreaching individual rights and freedoms IMO. Hell even this act I'm not totally OK with, what if there is not a certain defined set of questions employers are allowed to ask? its a very broad bill as it stands now in the summary. If perhaps it were to slip through without qualifiers these polygraphs could be used to persecute people due to pregnancy, religious beliefs, cultural background etc... far crazier things have happened in recent US politics.

    Regardless this discussion has gotten far off the tracks. at the end of the day, to persecute disney (a corporation) because they didn't petition the government to enact laws regarding new hiring practices is just unrealistic and misplaced rage. they are one of if not the largest single site employer in the entire US and deal explicitly with children, people are going to slip through the cracks, thats just an unfortunate reality of the world we live in today people need to deal with. Its unrealistic to suggest that there will be a "perfect" system where nothing bad ever happens. now if things were legitimately bad like god forbid a kid(s) were getting abused on property and there were a large number of arrests then no question something needs to be done, but the numbers you are discussing based upon the enormous amount of employees they have and the clientele they are dealing with are rather minimal. your doing just what the biased author/news site wants you to do: simply reacting to the number "25" and not the actual statistic "25 out of 60,000 at any one time" that number could almost be double based upon the obvious expectation of job turn over over that time period.

    First, I do not find anything humorous about this topic.
    Before the most recent sting operation, Disney has known about the 21 previous employees that have slipped through the cracks. They know that they have been employing sexual predators for years. It is only now once the media steps up and says something that congress will do something about it. Why didn't Disney send lobbyists to Washington to have something done about this? Maybe it's because of the mentality expressed in what you just said:
    You comparing sexual predators being paid by Disney to be on their property to "molehills" and suggesting that they should just brush this off like it's nothing makes me cringe. Unfortunately, it is obvious that this is the same mentality of the Disney company. Otherwise, they would have taken steps to have things changed a long time ago.
    No one is finding the topic humorous, I find your immense outrage without any realistic proposals as to how disney could have resolved the issue humorous. Simply stating that they are at fault without any argument as to HOW they are at fault isn't good enough. Do you honestly believe that if they had foreknowledge that they had a sexual predator employed and working in a park that they would keep them on staff? thats absolutely preposterous, they are far too legally savvy to even suggest keeping a high risk individual on especially when they have more then enough grounds for dismissal and a line up around the block of people with squeaky clean resumes willing to work minimum wage at the happiest place on earth. theres no conspiracy here, its simply a massive corporation that happens to have a very small number of bad people in it that are good at hiding their secrets. you know who also has that problem? every corporation in the world.

    Furthermore why is it the responsibility of private enterprise to pay hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to lobby the government to protect citizens? isn't that, you know, the job of the government? blaming private enterprise because they follow the law to a T and then don't go above and beyond to do things for the public is just plain rediculous. private enterprise is going to do everything it can to cut costs and turn profits, thats its job, and thats all it should be expected to do. If you want to blame anyone blame the completely ineffective government at both federal and state levels, particularily the far too right leaning uncooperative republican party, for ignoring significant and important issues like this one and instead focusing on great topics like T-V ultrasounds and allowing the mentally handicapped to same day purchase automatic weapons without a background check. Private enterprise will always be private enterprise and asking it to spend MORE money to do a job the government doesn't demand it to do is simply an unrealistic, dreamland, suggestion that will never happen.

    sexual predators again are terrible terrible people, arguably the worst people, but even this new act if its placed into law won't eliminate all of them at disney world, maybe it brings the numbers down somewhat but do you really think people can't beat a polygraph? its been done before and it will be done again. there is no perfect system, there will always be an element of human error, and in places with a massive amount of employees it increases the very small likelihood that things like this can happen. I understand that your not happy with predators working at disney, neither am I, but its just a fact of life you need to deal with unfortunately.

  7. #22

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    The rate of Disney employees arrested for child molestation or other crimes (the source of this sensationalism) per thousand is lower than the rate for the general population at large.

    Disney has already created a situation where your child is *less* at risk from abuse than they are outside the park, and this - even presented as an indictment of the parks - is numerical proof.

    None of these cases involved actual actions against a guest or child on Disney property. The only two cases that involved Disney property at all - in eight years - were possession of child pornography.

    What more does Disney need to do? I don't ask this flippantly - polygraphs are illegal and unreliable, there's a limit to how much investigation you can do to an innocent person, Disney's already lowered the rate of incidents to below the general population rate - but in all seriousness, what more is expected? Worn cameras mounted to multiple locations on every employee? Blood pressure sensors and brain scans to ensure no untoward arousal? Paid sheriff's deputies standing next to each employee?

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try to minimize the risk of bad people doing bad things. But when you're already doing better than the society that's criticizing you, what more SHOULD be expected?
    thank you BogLurch, pretty much the main point I was getting at summed up fairly concisely. at the end of the day bad people exist in this world and we need to cope with that, hopefully with the justice system working and removing them before they do any real harm. disney is still a part of the "real world" and therefore will always contain a small portion of the issues the real world faces.

  8. #23

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try to minimize the risk of bad people doing bad things. But when you're already doing better than the society that's criticizing you, what more SHOULD be expected?
    That's RATIONAL thought. Most people don't get that.

  9. #24

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Pedophiles like to take jobs where they can have acces to children, like in daycare, schools and themeparks. This nothing new. What one could have hoped was that Disney put more of an effort in looking up people when they hire. I can imagine that Disney's waterparks has one or ten pervs in their workstaff.
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  10. #25

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    Pedophiles like to take jobs where they can have acces to children, like in daycare, schools and themeparks. This nothing new. What one could have hoped was that Disney put more of an effort in looking up people when they hire. I can imagine that Disney's waterparks has one or ten pervs in their workstaff.
    Again, though, the article suggests the opposite.

    Factually, your children are VASTLY more likely to be assaulted or molested by a family member or family friend than a theme park employee your child will see for a very short period of time and likely never again.

    Fairly reliable aggregate figures put the incidents of overall sexual abuse of children at between about 1.5-3 per thousand. The rate at the WDW complex (presuming the 60k employee figure and the total of 25 cases over eight years for an average of 3.125 *incidents involving Disney employees*, not assaults on park property, yearly) gives you roughly ONE actionable employee for every NINETEEN THOUSAND employed yearly. I'd consider that a MUCH better safety margin than 1-3 per *thousand* regular citizens. if you want to contemplate the rate of actual incidents *on Disney property* it's even more ludicrous - you're looking at two incidents over eight years, meaning you'd have to go through an aggregate equivalent to over two hundred and forty thousand Disney employees for each *incident* that occurred on Disney property. If you want to talk actual assaults during this "dangerous" period, that's even lower - it's zero per thousand employees.

    Zero.

    Your children are more in danger of being molested at a family reunion than they are at Disneyworld.

    This was a hysterical click driver, nothing more. There is no real story here unless you want to cover why the news media feels that in a time of immense global and domestic turmoil THIS is what they chose to publish.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Again, though, the article suggests the opposite.

    Factually, your children are VASTLY more likely to be assaulted or molested by a family member or family friend than a theme park employee your child will see for a very short period of time and likely never again.

    Fairly reliable aggregate figures put the incidents of overall sexual abuse of children at between about 1.5-3 per thousand. The rate at the WDW complex (presuming the 60k employee figure and the total of 25 cases over eight years for an average of 3.125 *incidents involving Disney employees*, not assaults on park property, yearly) gives you roughly ONE actionable employee for every NINETEEN THOUSAND employed yearly. I'd consider that a MUCH better safety margin than 1-3 per *thousand* regular citizens. if you want to contemplate the rate of actual incidents *on Disney property* it's even more ludicrous - you're looking at two incidents over eight years, meaning you'd have to go through an aggregate equivalent to over two hundred and forty thousand Disney employees for each *incident* that occurred on Disney property. If you want to talk actual assaults during this "dangerous" period, that's even lower - it's zero per thousand employees.

    Zero.

    Your children are more in danger of being molested at a family reunion than they are at Disneyworld.

    This was a hysterical click driver, nothing more. There is no real story here unless you want to cover why the news media feels that in a time of immense global and domestic turmoil THIS is what they chose to publish.

    lol exactly! it astounds me that people are covering/spin doctoring things like this when world war three literally almost started yesterday over the Ukraine..... and today nobody knows or cares.

  12. #27

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    lol exactly! it astounds me that people are covering/spin doctoring things like this when world war three literally almost started yesterday over the Ukraine..... and today nobody knows or cares.
    And I'm sorry about going on about this. I do it because child abuse - sexual and otherwise - *is* a serious issue that requires serious action. This story isn't that. If anything scare pieces like this get used to convince people "oh, it's not that bad, look how much they had to exaggerate in order to get clickthru". That leads to desensitizing on what IS a serious issue in many ways within our society.
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  13. #28

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    Re: Turning out to be a terrible summer in the media for WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by PlutoHasFleas View Post
    Out of the 32 theme park employees arrested, five were from Universal, two from Sea World, and the remaining 25 were from Disney. Disney is having the biggest problem with this issue, and they have not changed anything in there hiring process to combat it. It's not like all of this happened just yesterday. These numbers have accumulated over the past 8 years.

    Walt Disney World also has the highest amount of employees at over 66,000+. It also is situated in a piece of property that is the size of over 40 square miles. San Francisco is the same size so it could be almost impossible to stop all crime from happening within its property.

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