Read what Dr. Crane wrote above you. Keep in mind that when you walked through the gates of Uncle Walt's kingdom, the first thing that greeted you was the Disneyland-Santa Fe Railroad. Santa Fe as in the railroad company.Originally Posted by Pete
And don't forget the incredible amount of Tomorrowland sponsorship. Even the Bathroom of Tomorrow had a sponsor.
I suggest you read what I wrote above you.
Yep, I actaully went in a number of times.
And then they gave the world Agent Orange, so?Monsanto was presented as a forward-looking company that was improving the world for everyone.
If anything, McDonalds is what it is. It's the leader of beef and chicken sandwich meals across the United States. They are pretty much as iconic of what they do as Santa Fe (or Union Pacific, but Santa Fe got the sponsorship) is of trains. Or as Dole is with pineapples.
But sponsorship of a ride is one thing...totally different from McD's food (minus Dinoland).
Lets focus on food here: we get Nestle sponsorship = Nestle cookies in a Disney environment. Nestle Ice Cream in a Disney Environment. We get McDonald's sponsoring a food service stand...that is serving the same fast food as the outside world, actually competeing with Disney's own fries (it's a stretch but work with me here).
Where in the normal world can you go buy a ready made hot Nestle Cookie? No where I know...you have to make them yourself. Same with Nestle Ice Cream. Its not a common thing to see a Nestle Ice Cream stand ready to serve you hot fresh ice cream cones with ice cream. These are sponsored foods...but made special. Dole Whips: where else can you get them? Tell me I'd love to know.
The fries inside the parks are the same that you can get on every street corner around the world. Nothing amazing. Nothing different about how they are served. It's not the sponsorship or the food...its the fact that there is nothing special being made about it. The outside world is creeping in...without being Disney-ized.
All ride sponsorships and food sponsorships are Disney-ized except for McD's.
Niles, Niles, Niles... I understand what Walt did and I agree he needed his sponsorships to create offerings within the parks... and while I understand this and agree with it, What I would not like to see is McDonald's Restaurants popping up inside the MK or any other Disney parks. Keep them somewhere else on property where they belong.
But the thing is (With an exception to DAK and DCA, where I agree with your sentiments), we are not seeing a huge pair of Goldern Arches being erected above Big Thunder Mountain - a simple cart selling McDonald's Fries isn't cheapening the park. It in principle is exactly the same as Coke Corner - a Coke Sponsored location, carrying the Coke name, selling Coke products that I can easily go down the street and buy.
Please point out the difference, or is Coke Corner, a staple of DL, also 'Cheapening the Park'.
You can get Dole Whips in Hawaii, I know. I'll have to look at the menus next time I'm at the Cal, since it caters to Hawaiian tourists, and see if they're in a desert menu.
Anyway, using this arguement, churros and popcorn (sponsored by Orville Reddenbacher, at least at one point) should not be sold in the park, either, because I can buy those at the grocery store.
And the fries at Cosmic Ray's or the Tall Tale Inn are different HOW?The fries inside the parks are the same that you can get on every street corner around the world. Nothing amazing. Nothing different about how they are served. It's not the sponsorship or the food...its the fact that there is nothing special being made about it.
I'm not saying they should shut down the Liberty Tree and put a McD's in, but for the love of pete, theme park food sucks and Disney's, aside from the restaurants that practically require reservation (which have never been what I'm talking about here), are certainly no exception. If McD's can make the same bland burgers, do it at a price that's a tad less to the consumer, and is willing to pay the park operator to do it, then why not?
I mean, if you don't like it, fine, don't eat there. Go to Plaza Inn or Tony's or Liberty Tree or somewhere else instead.
Former DL Main Street staples included a Carnation place and a Sunkist OJ place.
I really find it funny after reading this whole thread I really have decied that some people will find the dumbest things to complain and whine about especially when it comes to the theme parks but honestly this one takes the cake. I love Disney as much as anyone else on this site but seriously some people are completely to nit picky about these things. McD's does nothing to cheapen the Disney experience. They try and theme the few stands there are in the parks and do it nicely for the most part. The prices are fair and as far as quality I'd rather have thier fries compared to any park fries anyday (even though I don't buy them cause I am trying to give up fast food all together). There are far to many honest problems in all of the parks to even make this an issue.
Come on, French fries are french fries. If this cheapens your experience in WDW then I'm sorry for you. I think Disney sees it as good. The lines at those McDonalds fry shops are normally staggering. I'd say most people prefer having them over WDW fries (which are the same thing you get in restaurants all over the world. They're just frozen fries. They aren't dicing the potatoes into mickey shaped heads.)The fries inside the parks are the same that you can get on every street corner around the world. Nothing amazing. Nothing different about how they are served. It's not the sponsorship or the food...its the fact that there is nothing special being made about it.
If we go by your estimation on cheapening the parks. Then we also need to remove all cokes out of the park. It's the same thing you can get from any gas station all across America. It's just a coke in a bottle. Disney could bottle their own soda and market it in the parks. It would make the experience so much better.
The Disneyland & Sante Fe Railroad was not a traditional sponsorship deal. Walt asked the Sante Fe Railroad for permission to use their name because he felt it lent authenticity to the park. It gave the impression that the Disneyland Railroad was a real railroad and was somehow connected to the Sante Fe. This helped to give the idea that Disneyland (and specifically Main Street USA) was a real small town. This was kin to Walt's desire to have Disneyland on the mile marker freeway signs...so that if you're driving down from San Francisco you would see: "Los Angeles 65 miles, Disneyland 100 miles" at one point along the way. He wanted Disneyland to have it's own Newspaper and Post office and wanted it to be it's own city really. The Disneyland & Sante Fe was part of that thought thread .
You see every name means something to people. It represents an idea. Sante Fe means nineteenth century rail roads, Coke means baseball games and county fairs, Dole means authentic hawaiian pineapple to many theme park guests. Walt understood that.
Monsanto would be a horrible choice for a sponsor today because of Agent Orange. But in 1957 it meant hope, optimism and cutting edge technology.
Some of you have no problem with McDonald's, but to a lot of us it is associated with cheap commercialism, unclean work places, low wages, poor quality food, childhood obesity and unchecked urban sprawl. To some of us this is not a little thing. To some of us, when we see the slogan "There's Gold in Them Thar Fries," we feel like we just stepped into a poor attempt at theming in a Six Flags park, and we are reminded of all the crappy visual clutter we see every day on our way to work. This is the real world invading the Disney World and we don't like it.
Just for fun, here is one more reason to hate McDonald's...
http://forests.org/archive/general/macfore.htm
Last edited by Pete; 06-04-2006 at 06:36 AM.
I always think it is funny when I see the word Disney used as if it were a living breathing person. As a person who worked for Disney in a variety of positions in Florida and California for over a decade, I can tell there is no one "Disney" mind at work. Disney is a community of people who argue, disagree and fight for political power. Sometimes decisions are made with good intentions (long term health of the company and concern for shareholders, cast members and guests) and sometimes decisions are made so one executive can get a promotion or make a fast buck.
There has been a raging internal debate about McDonald's since at least 1997.
So then things from the real world "add authenticity." So then I don't see how fries you can get anywhere else are any less authentic than Sunkist OJ that you can get anywhere else.
No, if Santa Fe is trains (which it is), Coke is a fizzy drink. One I can buy anywhere, really.You see every name means something to people. It represents an idea. Sante Fe means nineteenth century rail roads, Coke means baseball games and county fairs
Do you think Disney actually picked these sponsors? No, companies came by and sponsored things on their own, and Walt got their money to help build something with their name on it. It's a Small World (the original World's Fair one) was built with dollars from Pepsi, and since it's still running along at Disneyland today Disney certainly got their money's worth, errr, actually, other people's money's worth.Monsanto would be a horrible choice for a sponsor today because of Agent Orange. But in 1957 it meant hope, optimism and cutting edge technology.
That's your problem. I associate FedEx with a guy leaving an expensive box on my porch while I'm not home and letting it sit there for hours. Does that mean they should have never sponsored Space Mountain? I'm not even sure what FedEx and space travel have to do with one-another, even.Some of you have no problem with McDonald's, but to a lot of us it is associated with cheap commercialism, unclean work places, low wages, poor quality food, childhood obesity and unchecked urban sprawl.
Personally, there's been so many sponsorships of questionable nature in the past (i.e. Exxon's Universe of Energy) that to bicker over this one seems ridiculous.
Okay.
Those are Disney fries not McDonald's fries. I personally find them to taste better.And the fries at Cosmic Ray's or the Tall Tale Inn are different HOW?
No Six Flags food sucks, Disneys is rather good.theme park food sucks and Disney's, aside from the restaurants that practically require reservation (which have never been what I'm talking about here), are certainly no exception.
Well because Disney's burgers are not the same tiny McD's burgers. Now I am not a McDonald's fan...but even if this was BK I don't want them in the park. There is a difference between outsourcing and sponsoring.If McD's can make the same bland burgers, do it at a price that's a tad less to the consumer, and is willing to pay the park operator to do it, then why not?
Wow?! If that's the conclusion you have come to after reading this thread, you simply don't get it and you proably never will.
You don't know who you are talking to. I worked in Participant Affairs at Disney. Sometimes Disney contacts other companies and sometimes other companies came to Disney.Do you think Disney actually picked these sponsors? No, companies came by and sponsored things on their own, and Walt got their money to help build something with their name on it.
But Exxon wasn't the subject of the thread.Personally, there's been so many sponsorships of questionable nature in the past (i.e. Exxon's Universe of Energy) that to bicker over this one seems ridiculous.
I've said what I'm going to say on this subject. Bye.
"Some of you have no problem with McDonald's, but to a lot of us it is associated with cheap commercialism, unclean work places, low wages, poor quality food, childhood obesity and unchecked urban sprawl."
I think that is a very negative view of McDonalds and is as much the fault of American society as it is one company. I don't know about all other countries but I know that's not the way McDonalds is seen here in the UK or in any other countries I have been to.
Cheap Commercialism - find something in America that isn't. The whole country is a cheap commercial for something. I am still waiting for the day I walk into a restroom and hear a flush followed by "This flush was brought to you by .........". America is one big browser pop up.
Low Wages - Is it McDonalds fault that the American minimum wage is so pathetically low?
Childhood Obesity - Only in American society is eating out of ordering in the normal way of life. No other country has the problems with obesity that America does and they all have McDonalds too. If they weren't eating McDonalds they'd be eating somewhere else just as unhealthy. I've spent a lot of time in the states staying with various family and when they do cook it's as unhealthy as McDonalds if not worse; before blaming McDonalds I'd be asking why it is that you go into a supermarket the fresh meat isle is smaller than the frozen pizza isle, or the only choices of potato are red or white or apple are green or red. I've tried cooking decent meals in the states, it wasn't easy.
Poor Food Quality - Possibly, but damn does it taste good. And try visiting a McDonalds in France; tasty.
Urban Sprawl - Again, what chain isn't on every corner. There's always been the joke about Starbucks but I've just come back from 3 weeks in rural America as well as having toured the states for 6 months in the past. There's a Movie Gallery on every corner, more Nail places than can possibly be needed, a phone shop or auto place every two doors. It's like Deja Vu, you look at one strip of shops, drive a mile down the road and theres another strip with all the same shops.
Personally I just spent 5 days at WDW and the only time I noticed anything to do with McDonalds was at Animal Kingdom where there was a sign as you walked into Dino Land saying sponsored by McDonalds and theres sponsored by signs all over all the Disney parks so no big deal. Only once did I knowingly eat at one of their retaurants (again in Dino Land) and at Kiosks the only advertising I saw was a little symbol to note that the fries were McDonalds fries which to me is no different than a Coke symbol. In fact I think the advertising for the Minute Maid frozen lemonade was more noticable than that for McDonalds fries. I certainly don't think there was any park cheapening by McDonalds presence at the park.
Last edited by StrongStyle; 06-05-2006 at 02:36 AM.
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