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  1. #31

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snow_White_Raven View Post
    my flight is only going to $65 roundtrip because I am flying on Flyer points so I just have to pay taxes... So after hotel, air fair and tickets... that still leaves me with $350 for food and a few souveniers... And I am staying at the All Star Music...
    Wow, that's a sweet deal! Have a great time!

  2. #32

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy999 View Post
    She's a DLR CM.....that should explain things.

    Ah, yes it does.

    Kind of like when my DSL and phone service runs me about $20 a month

    -dave
    "I'm gonna build my own amusement park. But with gambling and hookers!" - Bender
    "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony

  3. #33

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacha View Post
    What really puts me off more than the DbD articles, are the posts on Micechat where someone asks an innocent question like, "Which attraction/ride/restaurant do you prefer at WDW, X or Y?" and they'll get a response sort of like "Neither. X and Y both suck! The one at [overseas Disney resort] is so much better! In fact, pretty much everything at WDW just totally sucks compared to..."

    Anyone else notice stuff like this? Does stuff like that ever bug anyone else here? Am I just being a dork for letting stuff like that bug me?

    It does not "bug" me, but I am beginning to see sort of the same thing. People say its "tough love" and that they love Disney, they just want to improve it. Well thats all well and good, but i RARELY see any positives, and when I do see them they are in a left handed sort of way (sorry for the slight any of you lefties) It will be like, the such and such was good, but it could have been better if...

    People say that they do this because they are trying to get the attention of Disney management and make them change. The problem is, this is not the way to "win friends and infulence people" In ANY management class, training seminar, interpersonal skills, motivational, or persuasive argument class I have ever taken (and I have taken a few) you do not point out only the negatives. You make a negative "sandwitch" with the positives as the bread. Wrap the problems with praise and people will be much more acceptable to your suggestions. Never never never end an appraisal on a negaitive, never qualify a positive with a negative.

    Think about it. Which would you reather hear in an evaluation

    "That report you wrote was great, the financial analysis was wonderful, the only problem with it was the large amount of typos"

    or

    "That report you wrote was great, it had a large number of typos, which I know you will do better with next time, however the financial analysis that you performed for it was wonderful"

    Well, I would be a much happier empolyee if I heard the second one, and would be more inclined to work on fixing my typos. However I see a lot of the "problems with Disney" posts fitting the pattern of the first case.

    -dave
    "I'm gonna build my own amusement park. But with gambling and hookers!" - Bender
    "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony

  4. #34

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Sadly, WDW management only responds to abject negativity ... and then only when it reaches the media and creates a PR situation for them.

    And having known many execs past and present I can tell you that they don't want any criticism at all. None. So the advice about wrapping the negativity in praise just holds no water with me.

    When they ask you how things are, they want/expect one answer 'Great!' or even better 'Magical!'

    Now, there are plenty of wonderful things about WDW -- much more positive than negative -- but if I sit here and do nothing but write about those aspects, I am giving carte blanche to small-minded weasel execs to further WalMart the place.

    I can't do that.

    FWIW, Pacha will likely have a great time. Staying at wonderful resort with some of the best CMs on property ... and going at one of the best times of the year both weather and event wise.

    But I need to get back to bitching about the state of the MK or it won't ever get better.

    Our country is being WalMarted and the sheep go right along for the ride, so why would Disney be any different?

  5. #35

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    Sadly, WDW management only responds to abject negativity ... and then only when it reaches the media and creates a PR situation for them.

    And having known many execs past and present I can tell you that they don't want any criticism at all. None. So the advice about wrapping the negativity in praise just holds no water with me.

    When they ask you how things are, they want/expect one answer 'Great!' or even better 'Magical!'

    Now, there are plenty of wonderful things about WDW -- much more positive than negative -- but if I sit here and do nothing but write about those aspects, I am giving carte blanche to small-minded weasel execs to further WalMart the place.

    I can't do that.

    FWIW, Pacha will likely have a great time. Staying at wonderful resort with some of the best CMs on property ... and going at one of the best times of the year both weather and event wise.

    But I need to get back to bitching about the state of the MK or it won't ever get better.

    Our country is being WalMarted and the sheep go right along for the ride, so why would Disney be any different?
    Its funny though how things like Wal Mart, which supposedly suck so much, do so well.

    We the minority, know so much better what the majority wants, yet the rotten majority just cant seem to grasp that and continue to vote with their paychecks in the improper way.

    And no, you do not have to go into the theory of big box retailing and how it destroys choice with me. I am well aware of how that works. But the fact remains, people like it. Why do they like it, because they like cheap prices (and products). It is part of what is creating the dual class system in this country. The "poor" have access to copious amount of cheap quality, no choice, goods, and the "rich" have the botique choices.

    The problem with WDW is, it cannot survive as a botique provider. Oh sure it tries, for the people who can affort it. However in reality it relies on the masses who bring in $150 of profit a day, as opposed to the hadfull who bring in $1,500 a day. As the spread between the classes grows, WDW must choose a path. WDW used to be a very middle class type vacation. Not something for those who are struggling to do, but something nice that a working class family who saved for a bit could do every so often. WDW has changed to meet the changing demographics of this country. It has made the overall baseline package "cheaper" and then provides "plusses" for those who can afford them.

    The changing of WDW is a symptom, not the cause. You can rail against the WDW execs as much as you want, but as long as Disney is a publicly traded company, and where the majority of stock is held by institutions, nothing is going to change. I hat to be cliche, but if you want to change the world, change yourself. When was the last time you went to a local hardware store instead of the Home Depot. When was the list time you bought your cold cuts at an independent deli instead of the chain supermarket. When was the last time you had a shirt made at your local tailor instead of off the rack at Kohls. When was the last time you visited a farmers market, participated in a community owned farm, bought a handmade item, went to a local toy store to get a kids present instead of Target. Not that there is anything wrong with not doing these things, it does not make you a bad person. I don't do a lot of the above myself, but my hypocracy only goes so far. I am well aware I am a part of the problem, and untill I decide to make a concerted effort the change myself, I cannot resolve myself to put blame on others.



    And as for execs not wanting criticisim - well those are just crap executives.

    Me, I don't want to hear criticisim from my people either. If there are problems, I want to hear about it, but I want to also hear proposed solutions. I you say "this stinks" you will not be long on my team. If you say "here is how we can make it better" I tend to keep you around.

    -dave
    "I'm gonna build my own amusement park. But with gambling and hookers!" - Bender
    "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony

  6. #36

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Dave, I agree with so much of what you are saying here ... but I don't want to turn the thread completely into one about economics and politics in our fair nation. Instead, I'll just focus on your points that directly involve Disney ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post

    The changing of WDW is a symptom, not the cause. You can rail against the WDW execs as much as you want, but as long as Disney is a publicly traded company, and where the majority of stock is held by institutions, nothing is going to change. I hat to be cliche, but if you want to change the world, change yourself.
    It can be tough to produce quality and keep Wall Street happy, no doubt.

    But it's possible. Disney did it for decades. Pixar did it for its entire history. Many companies can do so.

    But it requires leadership ... visionary leadership that understands its products and its audience and the value of the name (or as the idiots that have turned Disney into something less than call it 'the brand'). And leadership that won't sell its soul for a quick payday (see Disney cheapquels).

    Disney's product has always been umatched creative content be it in animation, theme parks, resorts etc ...that changed starting around 1995.
    It became all about leveraging the Disney name to make as much as possible regardless of quality. And it still didn't impress Wall Street as when Disney reached a nadir in quality in many business units over the past decade, Wall Street didn't push the stock higher to greenstamp the quality cuts with a higher per share price.

    Now, with folks like John Lasseter around, there's some justified hope.

    But P&R still need to be cleaned out from the top down. I'd venture to say I'd dump half the execs Disney has worldwide right now. And WDI still has Imagineers with no clue as to what people go to Disney parks for, which is scary.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    And as for execs not wanting criticisim - well those are just crap executives.

    Me, I don't want to hear criticisim from my people either. If there are problems, I want to hear about it, but I want to also hear proposed solutions. I you say "this stinks" you will not be long on my team. If you say "here is how we can make it better" I tend to keep you around.

    -dave
    Well, yeah Dave, they are crap execs ... but they are in power nonetheless.

    I also don't feel unless it's an issue of safety (like those pesky monorails that aren't being maintained) it isn't the job of folks like us ... just fans ... to do free consulting for TWDC by offering them ways of improving their product and making more $$$.

    I know how much some consultants get for ruining Disney's parks and resorts, and I'll be damned if I sit here on a site monitored by the Mouse and give them ideas for free.

    If they want to hire me as a consultant (and get me off these boards), they know where I live (really!) Otherwise, I'll just point out the flaws until they do something about things themselves.

  7. #37

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quick update and some other thoughts...

    Airline is booked. Doing a direct flight from Milwaukee to Orlando on Midwest Airlines. In case you've never had a chance to fly them, they're an outstanding airline based here in Milwaukee. Great service; great seating configuration (5 across, leather seats with waaaay more room than average); real food (full blown meal for $10); and baked on board chocolate chip cookies for dessert! The coolest part is the fare is the same as AirTran's cheapest. Near first class for a coach price!

    Also found out some friends of ours are going to meet us there and will be staying at Shades of Green, which, from what I understand, is across the street from Poly. Anyone familiar with Shades of Green? How far is it from Poly? Found their website, but the map didn't show Poly's location.

    Last but not least, for those who want to complain about WDW, go for it! That monkey is off my back. If it's the best way to get things fixed at WDW, then go for it.

  8. #38

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Pacha, SoG is right across from the Poly, but Disney doesn't provide transport there. I'm honestly not sure if walking is viable either.

    As to Midwest, I've heard great things about them, but never had the chance to fly them. Sadly, though, it looks like they'll merge with Orlando's Air Tran and become just another discount carrier.

  9. #39

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Cheers!

    I worked for Midwest in flight ops back in the late '80's, and you will not be disappointed! Make sure you understand that not all of their flights feature the "Signature Service" that they are famous for. But far, far, better than Airtran.

    We stayed at SOG back when it was the Golf Resort, and it's a pretty fair walk to the Poly in the heat. Not recommended. Take the bus.

  10. #40

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    Pacha, SoG is right across from the Poly, but Disney doesn't provide transport there. I'm honestly not sure if walking is viable either.

    As to Midwest, I've heard great things about them, but never had the chance to fly them. Sadly, though, it looks like they'll merge with Orlando's Air Tran and become just another discount carrier.
    Thanks for the info about SoG!

    Far as the Midwest/AirTran merger goes, it's not a foregone conclusion...yet. I did a bit of research on this and found that WI law very heavily favors Midwest. For example, WI law says they can take factors other than share price in consideration when refusing a merger deal.

    We'll see. Personally, I hope it doesn't happen because Midwest is a really amazing airline - in some ways, very 'Disney-like' in their approach to service.

  11. #41

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by don731 View Post
    Cheers!

    I worked for Midwest in flight ops back in the late '80's, and you will not be disappointed! Make sure you understand that not all of their flights feature the "Signature Service" that they are famous for. But far, far, better than Airtran.

    We stayed at SOG back when it was the Golf Resort, and it's a pretty fair walk to the Poly in the heat. Not recommended. Take the bus.
    Thanks for the info on SoG! Probably meet our friends at a park and then bus back to their resort, or monorail back to ours if we want.

    I've flow Midwest many times and have always been happy with them. Even their regional service. The flight in October will not be "Signature Service", but yeah, it's still waaaaaaay better than any other alternative out there. We were able to choose two pairs of seats on the two-across aisle instead of the three-across side, so that was fortunate.

    Just out of curiosity, did you live in WI when you worked for Midwest?

  12. #42

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacha View Post
    What really puts me off more than the DbD articles, are the posts on Micechat where someone asks an innocent question like, "Which attraction/ride/restaurant do you prefer at WDW, X or Y?" and they'll get a response sort of like "Neither. X and Y both suck! The one at [overseas Disney resort] is so much better! In fact, pretty much everything at WDW just totally sucks compared to..."

    Anyone else notice stuff like this? Does stuff like that ever bug anyone else here? Am I just being a dork for letting stuff like that bug me?

    Yea, it bugs me too, but I realize the general basis for some of the comparisons is the hope that when the executives read through some of the fan boards (which they have publicly admitted to doing) that they will make changes or address situations that can help WDW continue to strive for excellence. I haven't been fortunate to visit TDR yet, but while others may disagree, I would suggest a visit to WDW over DLR or DLRP any day, even though DLR and DLRP have their own unique plusses and reasons to visit. However, when I see or read posts where somebody says they are considering not going to WDW because of negative posts or articles like the Declining by Degrees series I am quite disheartened. Although not the intention, the cumulative image that these posts and articles portrays are quite unfortunate, especially since I'm sure that even those who write them could tell you their true admiration for the property, even with the perceived and actual problems that exist. WDW as a whole is absolutely wonderful, and when I see posts and articles that dwell on the negatives, I always remind myself the reason behind these types of posts. I usually read them with a conserved interest and don't comment, but sometimes I feel compelled to when I feel they start to go overboard. For instance, when I saw you considered actually not making a trip because of what you've read here, I felt compelled to tell you that not making a trip based off of posts and articles like that would be quite a disservice to both you and your family. I'm glad you chose to go and I know you will have a fantastic time. Btw, the newly refurbished Poly rooms are wonderful.
    Last edited by CTXRover; 06-25-2007 at 08:16 PM.

  13. #43

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    CTX, I agree with most of what you wrote.

    I love WDW and would still advise people to head there. Now if they're regulars at either DL, DLP or TDL, I might tell them to skip the MK entirely nowadays ... or visit it first, so the trip is all up after that.

    But I would never tell people they shouldn't go ... unless they were asking an either or question ...

    Also, anyone who would cancel a trip based upon a few posts on an Internet blog isn't the brightest bulb in my view. If all the reviews of a place were negative, it would be one thing. But that isn't the case here even with the MK.

    And I agree, Pacha will likely have a magical time. Those new rooms at the Poly are awesome.

  14. #44

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacha View Post
    Quick update and some other thoughts...

    Airline is booked. Doing a direct flight from Milwaukee to Orlando on Midwest Airlines. In case you've never had a chance to fly them, they're an outstanding airline based here in Milwaukee. Great service; great seating configuration (5 across, leather seats with waaaay more room than average); real food (full blown meal for $10); and baked on board chocolate chip cookies for dessert! The coolest part is the fare is the same as AirTran's cheapest. Near first class for a coach price!

    Also found out some friends of ours are going to meet us there and will be staying at Shades of Green, which, from what I understand, is across the street from Poly. Anyone familiar with Shades of Green? How far is it from Poly? Found their website, but the map didn't show Poly's location.

    Last but not least, for those who want to complain about WDW, go for it! That monkey is off my back. If it's the best way to get things fixed at WDW, then go for it.
    I just got back and I too was a little weary from all the negative posts on here. But we had a GREAT time. It was nothing like the stuff posted by people here. In fact, it was almost exactly opposite of the negativity posted here. So when I got back, I decided to put a lot of these negative posters on my Ignore list because I saw for myself that their claims are outrageous and blown out of porportion. The boards have never been better!!
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side; if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion" --John Stuart Mill




  15. #45

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    Re: Booked a trip this Oct...and almost didn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by tbminnie View Post
    I just got back and I too was a little weary from all the negative posts on here. But we had a GREAT time. It was nothing like the stuff posted by people here. In fact, it was almost exactly opposite of the negativity posted here. So when I got back, I decided to put a lot of these negative posters on my Ignore list because I saw for myself that their claims are outrageous and blown out of porportion. The boards have never been better!!
    Well, I'm glad you had a great time, and I'm sure I will too!

    Thought about the ignore feature and decided not to because a lot of the folks who complain a lot can also be very helpful. Didn't want to miss those posts. Heck, it's easy enough to scroll down and skip a post if it becomes complaining for the sake of complaining, or goes off topic for whatever reason.

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