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  1. #1

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    Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    In an article on MSN Money, financial analyst Michael Brush spotlights a number of American and international companies that do a significant amount of business in Iran, Syria and Sudan, countries the State Department labels as "state sponsors of terror." Among the companies Brush mentions are MasterCard, ConocoPhillips, Western Union and Nokia, making them, critics argue, de facto supporters of terrorism.

    Also mentioned prominently in the article is the new sponsor of Spaceship Earth, Siemens:

    The German electronics and electrical engineering giant trades in the United States as an American Depositary Receipt (ADR). It gets about 19% of its revenue from business in the U.S., including work for the Defense, State and Homeland Security departments and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

    But Siemens also provides know-how and equipment to support power plant construction, power generation and distribution, rail transport and telecommunications in Iran. Rather than back away from Iran because of that country's support for terrorist groups, Siemens boasts on its Web site that the goal of its subdivision there is "to intensify business relations with Iran and to further strengthen the company's position in the country."

    Siemens' work in telecommunications is especially troubling for critics of companies that do business in countries with links to terrorist groups. "That's inherently dual use," says Christopher Holton, director of the Center for Security Policy's Divest Terror Initiative. Holton's group describes itself as a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that promotes "peace through strength."

    By this he means that the telecom system being refined by Siemens may one day be used by Iran's military in a conflict with the United States or its allies. "Siemens is helping Iran with their military command and communications. I have a real problem with that," says Holton. "We may have to fight those people, and Siemens is on the wrong side in that war. That's just outrageous to me. It makes me sick to my stomach."
    In light of this information, do you feel it's still appropriate for Siemens to sponsor Spaceship Earth, or should Disney distance itself from a company that supports the infrastructure of a terror-sponsoring nation?

    Full Story: Are you investing in terrorism?
    Last edited by disneytim; 07-09-2007 at 08:29 AM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    wow, just wow....this is definately a strage situation.
    Last edited by horizonsfan92; 07-09-2007 at 08:27 AM. Reason: better wording
    - Horizonsfan

  3. #3

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    See I look at it this way. Siemens was just making sure the wand came down one way or another. Disney either did it the easy way, or the Iran way.

  4. #4

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    the US is notorious for considering a country an ally when it is beneficial to us (supporting irag vs. iran, supporting the taliban vs soviet union, etc, etc, etc), and then an enemy when our interests change.

    no doubt there are still many US companies and govt interests involved with iran, and it is absurd to expect every nation and company in the world to follow our ever changing notions of who is an enemy and who is an ally.

    that's geo-politics for ya

  5. #5

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by acapelad View Post
    the US is notorious for considering a country an ally when it is beneficial to us (supporting irag vs. iran, supporting the taliban vs soviet union, etc, etc, etc), and then an enemy when our interests change.

    no doubt there are still many US companies and govt interests involved with iran, and it is absurd to expect every nation and company in the world to follow our ever changing notions of who is an enemy and who is an ally.

    that's geo-politics for ya
    Well said!
    "When entering the theater, please move as far to the end of the row as possible. Stopping in the middle is distinctly unpatriotic." -Sam Eagle

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  6. #6

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    I'm not sure what the point of this is ... multinational companies are interested in only money.

    Disney did business with General Electric 'We Bring Nuclear Warheads To Life' while sponsoring a show about bringing humanity together in Illuminations.

    They've had sponsors such as Monsanto, whose chemicals have killed who knows how many, and Exxon-Mobil.

    I could go on and on here ... unless you're looking for a political discussion (here's one: we have a WalMart prez for a WalMarted nation ... discuss!) I'm not sure this has any place here at all.
    Last edited by WDW1974; 07-09-2007 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Typos ... oh, we got 'em

  7. #7

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by acapelad View Post
    the US is notorious for considering a country an ally when it is beneficial to us ... no doubt there are still many US companies and govt interests involved with iran
    Exactly
    Sounds to me like another great "Daily Show" opportunity here

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    Question Does NASA, DOD Homeland Security, etc. Aid ..

    Just delurking to add my $.02. (I could totally see this thread as being OT and soon to be moved/locked, but I knew about the following, which is how I'm aware of the company.)

    from the same article:
    The German electronics and electrical engineering giant trades in the United States as an American Depositary Receipt (ADR). It gets about 19% of its revenue from business in the U.S., including work for the Defense, State and Homeland Security departments and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
    (Even further afield and far OT, I followed the link provided to the SEC, which notes the company has changed their policy towards the Sudan, for what it's worth.)

    http://sec.gov/edgar/tlist/iran/siemens1135644-i.htm

  9. #9

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Spaceship Earth sponsoring Terrorism... That's just... silly.

    What would cutting the sponsorship do? It will not affect the company too much, they just loose a demonstration and show room and really cool place. Not 'essential' for business. Certainly they get a lot of marketing, but they lived without that until gaining sponsorship. All it will do is send a symbol that Disney judges the companies they work with based on government paranoia, making other companies hesitant to provide sponsorship as well. This is getting a bit too close to the "communist" witch-hunt methinks.

  10. #10

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    a follow-up ... this story shows that seimens, amoung others, has bigger skeletons in their closet than dealing with iran.

    CNS-Just as contemporary American fortunes were made upon the backs of enslaved people of the past, so too, major European corporations profited from the enslavement of human beings of the past, yet within living memory. For much of the last fifty years many people in Europe have chosen to forget their pasts as active Nazi collaborators and supporters, since the Nazi defeat and surrender made Nazi-ism politically incorrect. Yet ironically, many successful outfits had their origins in the Nazi plundering of Europe.


    Last August, holocaust survivors filed a class-action lawsuit in the U.S., against some of Germany's biggest and best known corporations, accusing the firms of profiting from Nazi-era slave labor. One lawsuit named Volkswagen, and a second action named VW along with its Audi subsidiary, and electronics giant Siemens, auto makers BMW and Daimler-Benz (maker of the Mercedes Benz), steelmaker Krupp-Hoesch, engineering group MAN, photo equipment group Leica, and weapons maker Diehl.


    These companies used more than 2 million slave laborers during the Nazi era, and yet they are active, doing business today, with no stigma whatsoever.

    should disney ban BMWs and VW bugs from the parking lot ? or forbid guests to take pictures of cinderella castle with a leica camera ?

    not to beat a dead horse, but business is business, and politics is politics.

    (i bet disneytim regrets this post before long).

    cheers

  11. #11

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    In light of this information, do you feel it's still appropriate for Siemens to sponsor Spaceship Earth, or should Disney distance itself from a company that supports the infrastructure of a terror-sponsoring nation?
    Does it matter really? All Disney sees is $$$ when partnering with these companies for sponsorship at the resorts. I have no opinion on this issue, but hey... maybe Disney is hoping the terrorists will leave the Disney properties alone since they are affiliated with such type corporations? You know... it's like a "I have an offer you can't refuse" kinda thing...

  12. #12

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    The thing is, what is anybody going to really do about it?

    We all know GE products, or Exxon, or a host of other companies. We all have the opportunity to buy (or not buy) their products.

    When was the last time anybody (besides me, 'cause I work in telecom) had any idea what Siemens makes, or even had an opportunity to purchase what the make? It is an odd choice of a sponsort, because they really don't seem to gain much from the advertising.

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  13. #13

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Well, just like my Sicko thread, maybe they should move this to the debate forum..
    "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

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  14. #14

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    Sound to me like Siemens is stuck between Iraq and a hard place.

    [rimshot]


  15. #15

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    Re: Does Spaceship Earth Aid Terrorism?

    I think Siemens is using this to increase their brand recognition here in the US, to solve the problem that phonedave raised (of not being aware of what they make).

    I used to work for GE (we competed with Siemens in healthcare, my division), so I was aware of the Nazi connection- to me, that is the worser skeleton in the closet for Siemens.

    But I agree with others, all businesses of that size, that have been around for a while, have some skeletons.

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