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  1. #16

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    I agree with Yoyo about the Pooh ride. It's no more kiddy that Pan, Teacups, Dumbo, or even Small World.

    The playground did not "replace" the subs. The subs were taken out for their own reasons, and later the playground was stuck there to help fill the spot. They could have just as easily stuck a churro cart there. Its just something to fill the spot.

    As far as Stitch, I dont find it THAT bad. Boring maybe, but not horribly bad. Same goes for MILF. Its cute, and entertaining. Not jaw dropping or a must see, but not bad.

    There are still plenty of "Adult" rides in the MK to take advantage of.

    -dave
    ITA! I think that there is a nostalgia factor at play in many of these threads. OK, some can argue that Peter Pan, with its novel ride system, is a bit more adult-thrilling than pooh, but how is pooh worse than Snow White or It's a Small World? They are all pretty much the same, when it comes to kiddie-ness. And plenty of adults (20-something women in particular) love and collect pooh stuff- just because you may not like it, does not mean that all adults feel the same way.

    Some might say that the addition of the toons to tiki room was an attempt to 'adult it up' a bit, with their double-entandre and inside jokes.

    For those without kids, I could see how these new kiddie-type rides like pooh, stitch and the pooh playground might not seem appealing. But when you talk about Walt's initial goal for the park: a place where families have fun together, all of these new additions fit that goal. My dd, dh and I enjoy pooh, and it is a joy to see her reactions. We all play together in the playground, and its a cherished memory. Character meals together are one of our favorite things. When she is older, I am sure we will enjoy Stitch together.

    These attractions are not just for kids- they are for families! And that was walt's goal, a place where families could have fun together.

  2. #17

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Should the addition of toons and attractions based on animated characters be classed as 'dumbing down'? Not IMO!

    Disney do two things well - animation and theme parks. Combining the two is an obvious choice and considering that the parks are there to make money and be attractive to guests, it's a no-brainer to use recognisable characters as a way to get people through the turnstiles.

    The days of people being happy to sail on a replica of the Columbia and the like are over and the profusion of theme parks in the world today means that Disney needs to play on its strengths to compete. The presense of these characters are surely what attracts most people to the parks in the first place (present company excepted of course!)

    Disney park fans may not like it but its preferable to the parks going out of business when the 'plebs' stop coming.

    I also agree that these rides allow kids to 'meet' the characters and relive their favourite stories - something they love. And whether childless or not, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
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  3. #18

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathan detroit View Post
    I also agree that these rides allow kids to 'meet' the characters and relive their favourite stories - something they love. And whether childless or not, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.

    While I agree with you with that, the attractions that MK gets with these toons are nothing but cheap layovers. I think most of us would forgive the toonification if the attractions themselves were great.

    Laugh Factory? No. Stitch Encounter? Could be improved. Tiki Room? Better without the toon birds. Aladdin Carpets? Wasteful use of a great property. Buzz Lightyear was an improvement. Pooh is a solid (hee hee) attraction. The playground, while not a real toonification since it's still Fantasyland is a poor temporary substitute for an E-Ticket attraction.


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  4. #19

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Stitch Encounter? Could be improved.
    With dynamite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Tiki Room? Better without the toon birds.
    Possibly the best example of all..............the Iago/Zazu animatronics are lightyears ahead of the others..........imagine if they were "ordinary birds" without the shoehorning-in of inappropriate characters.



    *inappropriate referring to the fact that they're portrayed as obnoxious and otherwise annoying.......not merely the fact that they're cartoon characters.
    Last edited by EPCOT; 09-07-2007 at 08:48 AM. Reason: typo

  5. #20

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    While I agree with you with that, the attractions that MK gets with these toons are nothing but cheap layovers. I think most of us would forgive the toonification if the attractions themselves were great.

    Laugh Factory? No. Stitch Encounter? Could be improved. Tiki Room? Better without the toon birds. Aladdin Carpets? Wasteful use of a great property. Buzz Lightyear was an improvement. Pooh is a solid (hee hee) attraction. The playground, while not a real toonification since it's still Fantasyland is a poor temporary substitute for an E-Ticket attraction.
    Yeah, yeah. Tell that to my five year old. As long as he's enjoying them - I am too.
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  6. #21

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathan detroit View Post
    Yeah, yeah. Tell that to my five year old. As long as he's enjoying them - I am too.
    ITA!

    Look at Toad, a nostalgia favorite- it was really a cheaply built ride. Just flat painted sets. Hey, I loved it too- but it was not some incredibly complex, detailed ride. It was pretty much buzz lightyear, without the interactivity Buzz gives you. The nostalgia factor is what causes us to remember these old rides so fondly, imo.

  7. #22

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathan detroit View Post
    Yeah, yeah. Tell that to my five year old. As long as he's enjoying them - I am too.
    That's all fine and good... for YOU. So what happens when your 5 year old grows up and hates disney world? Are you gonna feel the same as he? What if you didn't even have kids and you went on these attractions? Sure, you might still enjoy it but can admit that it's not their best work.

    I know I had fun at A Bug's Land in DCA when I went with a group of mice chatters. But by golly... that's a bunch of the worst attractions I've seen in a disney park. I KNOW they can do a lot better.

    Disney parks are fun with the people you love, no question. But what made Disneyland so great to begin with was its attention to history, nostalgia, detail, craftsmanship.... these are things that are invisible to a 5 year old.


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  8. #23

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post

    Disney parks are fun with the people you love, no question. But what made Disneyland so great to begin with was its attention to history, nostalgia, detail, craftsmanship.... these are things that are invisible to a 5 year old.
    These things are interesting to less and less people as time goes on. As much a Walt's original ideas were great, they were of their time.

    Joe Q Public wants to be entertained. Shallow but true.

    I don't agree with it. I don't like it. But its how it is.

    And I still like the Disney parks. They are certainly a cut above the alternatives.
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  9. #24

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    That's all fine and good... for YOU. So what happens when your 5 year old grows up and hates disney world? Are you gonna feel the same as he?
    Hey, again- look at toad. I grew up on it. I loved it and hold it fondly in my heart as a great memory-- as I do all the things my parents and I did in wdw.

    So my daughter and husband and I love pooh, and the pooh playground (among other things). When she grows up, she will probably feel the same way about those attractions as I do about toad and the other ones I enjoyed when I was a kid.

    That's what it's all about, and people without kids don't see that part of it- rediscovering the joy of attractions that as a adult you would breeze right by. Feeling happy that your child will have the same nostalgia for WDW as you do when they have a family of their own.

    Even if dd grows up to hate wdw (which I doubt, but I could be wrong), we'll still have the memories we are building here, together. And if I go back with dh only, we will focus on rides that we like to do, as adults. There are still plenty of attractions to appeal to adults.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    What if you didn't even have kids and you went on these attractions? Sure, you might still enjoy it but can admit that it's not their best work.
    Hey, pooh is a more immersive attraction than toad was! Although I miss toad, pooh is good- not as good as the one TDL got, but it is better, more detailed and immersive work when compared with toad. I would agree that I don't care for the new tiki birds, but with every tiki bird revamp there is a different new attraction that might appeal to you, like the pirates revamp, or the new HM.

    Bottom line: just because it does not appeal to you, does not mean it doesn't appeal to others, kids or no kids! There are a lot of new things, and I think everyone could agree that they like at least some of the new things.

  10. #25

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nom View Post
    Hey, again- look at toad. I grew up on it. I loved it and hold it fondly in my heart as a great memory-- as I do all the things my parents and I did in wdw.

    So my daughter and husband and I love pooh, and the pooh playground (among other things). When she grows up, she will probably feel the same way about those attractions as I do about toad and the other ones I enjoyed when I was a kid.

    That's what it's all about, and people without kids don't see that part of it- rediscovering the joy of attractions that as a adult you would breeze right by. Feeling happy that your child will have the same nostalgia for WDW as you do when they have a family of their own.

    Even if dd grows up to hate wdw (which I doubt, but I could be wrong), we'll still have the memories we are building here, together. And if I go back with dh only, we will focus on rides that we like to do, as adults. There are still plenty of attractions to appeal to adults.



    Hey, pooh is a more immersive attraction than toad was! Although I miss toad, pooh is good- not as good as the one TDL got, but it is better, more detailed and immersive work when compared with toad. I would agree that I don't care for the new tiki birds, but with every tiki bird revamp there is a different new attraction that might appeal to you, like the pirates revamp, or the new HM.

    Bottom line: just because it does not appeal to you, does not mean it doesn't appeal to others, kids or no kids! There are a lot of new things, and I think everyone could agree that they like at least some of the new things.

    You obviously didn't read anything I've said. I LIKE POOH. In every post in this thread I practically said that Pooh is a good ride!

    This thread isn't really about dark rides either. It's about making attractions that wasn't aimed at kids and making them exactly that.

    Alien Encounter became Stitch Encounter.
    Timekeeper became Monsters, Inc Laugh Floor
    Dream Flight became Buzz Lightyear (although I liked this change)
    Tiki Room became Tiki Room w/ Iago and Zazu
    20,000 Leagues Under the Sea removed, Pooh Playground put in
    Aladdin Magic Carpets put into a land and doesn't match well.

    Pooh replacing Mr. Toad really isn't the one in question here. It's about a theme park for all ages. And that doesn't just mean having fun with your kid.

    WDW has a great spot being the most visited theme park in the world. They don't need to do what they think that the public wants because tourists are gonna come no matter what. They can CREATE what the public WILL want and blow our minds.

    Magic Kingdom in the past decade has only done the bare minimum. That's great that you can still have fun with your kids. But like I said earlier, you can have fun practically anywhere with those you love. We go to Disney for something more. For their reputation and the amount we spend they should give us nothing less.


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  11. #26

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    The Magic Kingdom from 1971-1993 had the correct balance of cartoons/charecters and original attractions...this was before Eisner and the sleezy business types (not the good business types like Disney & Wells) took over and made the park one big commercial to sell dvds and merchandise.

  12. #27

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    WDW has a great spot being the most visited theme park in the world. They don't need to do what they think that the public wants because tourists are gonna come no matter what. They can CREATE what the public WILL want and blow our minds.
    Just got to add...........I LOVE that point of view.

  13. #28

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nom View Post
    ITA!

    Look at Toad, a nostalgia favorite- it was really a cheaply built ride. Just flat painted sets. Hey, I loved it too- but it was not some incredibly complex, detailed ride. It was pretty much buzz lightyear, without the interactivity Buzz gives you. The nostalgia factor is what causes us to remember these old rides so fondly, imo.
    Toad may have been built fairly cheap, but regardless of nostalgia it has a charm that IMO Pooh lacks. Toad put you in the driver's seat on a wild mad cap ride with many crashes and close encounters. Toad was a zany and crazy ride, while Pooh is a relaxing ride. Toad was totally different than Buzz Lightyear. Buzz Lightyear is good because of the interactivity, but without it, it would be pretty lame. Buzz has no crashes, no close encounters, no wildness and zaniness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostbuster626 View Post
    The Magic Kingdom from 1971-1993 had the correct balance of cartoons/charecters and original attractions...this was before Eisner and the sleezy business types (not the good business types like Disney & Wells) took over and made the park one big commercial to sell dvds and merchandise.

    Good post, some cartoons and characters are fine in the park, but what we have now is overkill. I think the modern Disney corporation (and that of the last decade) doesn't understand the meaning of the word "overkill."

  14. #29

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    Buzz Lightyear started the entire trend of Pixar conversion. Star Tours started the future science fantasy theme trend. Tomorrowland at MK has been invaded with cartoon themes more so than any other Tomorrowland. The conversion of Alien Encounter with Stitch's whatever was a bad decision and replacing the Timekeeper with the senseless Monsters Inc. comedy junk was an even worse decision. They might as well have put Midway Mania in Tomorrowland. It wouldn't have been any worse than putting in Monsters Inc.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not banging just Florida. Tokyo is putting in a Monsters Inc. ride in Tomorrowland. Look how Buzz Lightyear disjointed Discoveryland, Finding Nemo Tomorrowland, and Monsters Inc in Florida and soon Tokyo. Florida should still try and keep a lid on it. They, out of any other resort, have cartoonized their flagship park to the maximum. Tomorrowland at the Magic Kingdom is one of the biggest examples.I understand that DCA, MGM, and Disney Studios are facing the same problems, but at least the Imagineers can fit stories of Crush, The Little Mermaid, and Cars into the landscape. These things don't belong in Tomorrowland. Tomorrowland is a land that is supposed the showcase optimism of the future and nostalgia of our scientific histories. It's not a place to shoot lasers at a bad guy, watch a cartoon character spit at everyone, watch a one-eyed monster try and crack jokes, or see cartoon fish swim around.

    The frustrating matter is that Disney has grown into such a commercial giant, that the need to create synergy with films and characters and "brands" overshadows originality. Look how refreshing a ride like Expedition Everest, Mission: Space, or Big Thunder Mountain were. They were a new setting, a new story, and something completely original. It wasn't based off of Toy Story or Ratatouille and shoe-horned into some existing building or land. They were built in the proper setting, properly added to there surrounding themes, and are infact timeless. Monsters Inc. or Finding Nemo in Tomorrowland do neither of that. If this wasn't the case, then we wouldn't be discussing why the Magic Kingdom now feels like a big commercial or cartoon.
    Last edited by DisneyMickey; 09-07-2007 at 01:24 PM.

  15. #30

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    Re: The Magic Kingom shouldn't be a Giant Toontown Fair.

    I think its time to get rid of Buzz Lightyears astro blasters...especially now with Toy Story Mania at DL and WDW and Monsters Inc. at Tokyo.

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