Cinderella's Royal Table Dinner - Now fixed menu :(

[flynnibus]

Anyone else notice that Cinderella's Royal Table Dinner has moved (or will in Nov) to a fixed price menu?

http://allearsnet.com/menu/menu_crd.htm

Booo! Disney needs to stop ruining one of the most prized aspects of WDW - it's dining experience!

I really don't care about the whole reservation complaints about DDP - but the impact on the menus (basically lack of any real choice) and how they keep homogenizing the locations is getting absurd.

Pretty soon now its going to be counter-service with crappy paper plates.. and buffet character meals only!!

Disney needs to realize they are killing the golden goose here.

[misterp102778]

Well from what I heard to begin with is that the food is not that great for the price anyway. I havent eaten there do to the fact that you have to get reservations 2 lifetimes in advance, well 8 months last time checked, but I have talked to several people that have been there and said the food is not that great.

[BALASADA]

Disney's plan is to continue to rip people off and see who keeps coming. I don't care what they serve no resturant is worth 2 table service coupons. Remeber we are here to serve the guest with great customer service and give you a good value for your money.

[Phonedave]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Anyone else notice that Cinderella's Royal Table Dinner has moved (or will in Nov) to a fixed price menu?

http://allearsnet.com/menu/menu_crd.htm

Booo! Disney needs to stop ruining one of the most prized aspects of WDW - it's dining experience!

I really don't care about the whole reservation complaints about DDP - but the impact on the menus (basically lack of any real choice) and how they keep homogenizing the locations is getting absurd.

Pretty soon now its going to be counter-service with crappy paper plates.. and buffet character meals only!!

Disney needs to realize they are killing the golden goose here.

I am still convinced it is part of the effect of the DDP. I can't see how they make a profit on sit down dinners. Appitizer, Entree, and Dessert can be $40 or more. Restaruants are going to be forced to cut back and offer less just to remain profitable.

-dave

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by Phonedave

I am still convinced it is part of the effect of the DDP. I can't see how they make a profit on sit down dinners. Appitizer, Entree, and Dessert can be $40 or more. Restaruants are going to be forced to cut back and offer less just to remain profitable.

-dave

Certainly... the 'income' from the guests is low, and they continue to increase the # of guests using it further reducing the revenue.

They've been whoring the dining experience to further the mothership... which is fine to a degree.. but the prolonged behavior plus the changes to adapt... rather then just running it as a loss unit show there is no end in sight to this downward spiral. It would be one practice to just accept running it as a loss for a profit at a higher level (mothership) but when you start making your resturants run like the whore they are being used at... they will just become what you are using them as...

The sharing of menus, formats, etc.. will only further erode the unique dining experiences Disney used to help establish WDW as the destination it is.

Its pretty pathetic when I can goto a steak house in a STRIP MALL right outside Disney and have a much better meal AND experience.

Making food in the shape of mickey mouse is not going to be enough to sustain Disney Dining

[nbodyhome]

I ate there a couple of years back when it started going fixed price. It wasn't that good, thank goodness I wasn't paying for it myself (it was a gift).

I'd avoid Le Cellier too. New chef, lots of salt, no mushrooms on the mushroom filet.

[SorcererMickey]

Bring back the Prince John open face sandwich from the days of King Stefan's Banquet Hall. Best food ever.

[geoffa]

As this is the nearest thing to "Hell on earth" - the noise is unbearable - I really don't care. It's not an event I would grace ever again. The food is mush!
Bring back King Stefan's banqueting hall - you got good food, good atmosphere and good prices. It's time for Cindy to take a hike!

[Phonedave]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Certainly... the 'income' from the guests is low, and they continue to increase the # of guests using it further reducing the revenue.

They've been whoring the dining experience to further the mothership... which is fine to a degree.. but the prolonged behavior plus the changes to adapt... rather then just running it as a loss unit show there is no end in sight to this downward spiral. It would be one practice to just accept running it as a loss for a profit at a higher level (mothership) but when you start making your resturants run like the whore they are being used at... they will just become what you are using them as...

The sharing of menus, formats, etc.. will only further erode the unique dining experiences Disney used to help establish WDW as the destination it is.

Its pretty pathetic when I can goto a steak house in a STRIP MALL right outside Disney and have a much better meal AND experience.

Making food in the shape of mickey mouse is going to be enough to sustain Disney Dining

Without knowing for sure, I am fairly certain corporate structure has something to do with this as well.

I am all to aware of other groups not filing Operational Impact Assesments (OIA's) or either they get filed and responded to, and still nothing is done.

An OIA is basicly a note that says "my department wants to do this project, how will it impact your department". Somtimes you write back that its going to cause you greater expenses or a loss of revenue, but the project still prooves out, so it's implimented. But guess what, nobody adjusts your budget.

I have a feeling that is what is going on at WDW. the DDP promo was cooked up by one department, and it's working well for them (park attendance is up, maybe thats the metric they look at) but the person in charge of resort dining services still has his or her old budget numbers to make, so now that people are "locked into" dining at WDW they can just bell up to the trough and shovel away, because - hey, its free.

-dave

[Wally]

Originally Posted by BALASADA

Disney's plan is to continue to rip people off and see who keeps coming. I don't care what they serve no resturant is worth 2 table service coupons. Remeber we are here to serve the guest with great customer service and give you a good value for your money.

The California Grill is worth the 2 coupons.

[WSVR]

They've had a fixed menu for quite some time now. That one looks changed from when we were thinking of doing it. What's on that one looks better than what was on it before. Looking over the lunch menu, we pretty much had the exact same thing two years ago when we went to see the princesses.
I'm not so happy about the increase to two credits from one. But the place is still full.
I wouldn't consider CRT a decline. It was never all that good. Don't get me wrong. It was an experience eating in the castle. But I certainly prefer the trough character meals as better value whether paying out of pocket or credit and always have.

I don't care what they serve no resturant is worth 2 table service coupons

In general, the 2 baggers do not represent the best use of a credit if one wants to maximize the $value of food ordered per credit. That being said, we enjoyed our experiences at the two credit places just the same.
The meal plan is just like any other promotion. It's right for many, not right for others. It pays off big time at some places, it pays off zip at others.

Originally Posted by Phonedave
I am still convinced it is part of the effect of the DDP. I can't see how they make a profit on sit down dinners. Appitizer, Entree, and Dessert can be $40 or more. Restaruants are going to be forced to cut back and offer less just to remain profitable

The food doesn't cost em that much relative to other costs. And they pretty much have to staff the place and pay the overhead anyway. There is thus pressure to run full. . Restaurants that sat nearly empty no longer do so. I figure about $30 of what you pay for the meal plan goes to the sit down. So they can not offer the plan and have it sit 1/4 full or have the meal plan at a $10 savings or so and see it fill up. That's not to mention many people wouldn't order an appy, entree, and desert without the plan and wouldn't be spending $30 there anyway. So with the meal plan, they end up making more profit. Restaurants that ran full anyway are hurt a bit with the meal plan. But those were the character troughs and 'Ohana that weren't $40 anyway. So they certainly aren't hurt much. And if people use their sit down credits at breakfast, so much the better for Disney.

[BigPigletFan]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

I really don't care about the whole reservation complaints about DDP - but the impact on the menus (basically lack of any real choice) and how they keep homogenizing the locations is getting absurd.

Pretty soon now its going to be counter-service with crappy paper plates.. and buffet character meals only!!

Disney needs to realize they are killing the golden goose here.

Originally Posted by Phonedave

I am still convinced it is part of the effect of the DDP. I can't see how they make a profit on sit down dinners. Appitizer, Entree, and Dessert can be $40 or more. Restaruants are going to be forced to cut back and offer less just to remain profitable.

-dave

A lot of dining changes have been made since the DDP was created and implimented, but I think it's just one of those thingst that Disney won't realize the full implementation of these changes until they are full underway. Is there any way that we can express this concern in a practical way to some execs? Or is the DDP the main priority these days and the average guest (including the Brits who love WDW and usually stay off-site) doesn't matter?

[WSVR]

Certainly... the 'income' from the guests is low, and they continue to increase the # of guests using it further reducing the revenue.

That assumes that customers have the exact same spending habbits off than on. But that is not the case.

Look at the types of people.
1. There are those that don't change their habbits much, would spend full price for the same amount of sit down meals and the like and the meal plan gives them a total discount. Disney loses with this group.
2. There are those that get the meal plan, but then don't even spend the $ amount they paid. They may not understand that breakfast at CP isn't all that great a use of a credit. Disney wins, with this group.
3. There are those that without the meal plan would be happy with the counters and maybe one or two character troughs. But with the meal plan , they change those habits and eat more sit downs and in fact spend considerably more on the meal plan than they would have off it. Disney wins with this group as well.
4. There are those that don't get the meal plan. Disney doesn't win, nor lose with this group.
5. There are those that stop eating at Disney places because of the meal plan. This is a lose.

Groups 2 and 3 outnumber groups 1 and 5. Disney increases its revenue from the meal plan.

One of the biggest complaints people have about the meal plan is it's hard to find a free place any more. So it certainly is working to fill up places that weren't full before.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by WSVR

That assumes that customers have the exact same spending habbits off than on. But that is not the case.

Look at the types of people.
1. There are those that don't change their habbits much, would spend full price for the same amount of sit down meals and the like and the meal plan gives them a total discount. Disney loses with this group.
2. There are those that get the meal plan, but then don't even spend the $ amount they paid. They may not understand that breakfast at CP isn't all that great a use of a credit. Disney wins, with this group.
3. There are those that without the meal plan would be happy with the counters and maybe one or two character troughs. But with the meal plan , they change those habits and eat more sit downs and in fact spend considerably more on the meal plan than they would have off it. Disney wins with this group as well.
4. There are those that don't get the meal plan. Disney doesn't win, nor lose with this group.
5. There are those that stop eating at Disney places because of the meal plan. This is a lose.

Groups 2 and 3 outnumber groups 1 and 5. Disney increases its revenue from the meal plan.

One of the biggest complaints people have about the meal plan is it's hard to find a free place any more. So it certainly is working to fill up places that weren't full before.

All your logic assumes the DDE encourages guests to spend more then they would have otherwise - which is usually the case when you try to upsell someone (and as Disney did back in the 80s with similar programs like the Magic Kingdom Club, etc). However, all of that goes away when Disney GIVES away the program for a significant period of time.. plus when they DON'T give it away its < $40/day for adults.

$40/person is almost less then what you'd spend eating at ONE restaurant.. let alone 2-3 meals a day.

Yes, a percentage of people would not eat three meals a day, but even when a majority eat at least 2 - $40 is nothing - especially for those who were staying on property to begin with.

For those staying offsite, yes, $40/day is probably above what they might spend in the park - but those are the one's buying DDP to start with.

[BALASADA]

Originally Posted by Wally

The California Grill is worth the 2 coupons.

Anyone who believes the Crappy California Grill is worth 2 coupons thinks Disney is a cheap place to visit.