5th Park for WDW

[giggling_gargoyles]

Epcot is rather nice, but it needs an attraction in the WS other than the woman from Turkey chasing me down with brochures, trying to get me to go to Turkey every year at the Food Festival XD

But I'm getting off topic. Does anyone yes know where they plan to throw up numero cinco?

[Lindsy1052]

AK is still a half day park! and I don't go to MGM (ok, DHS, but it'll always be MGM to me) because, honestly, its rather pitiful.

MGM, as it will always be known to most of us, is my favorite of all the parks. It does however, need some TLC. Epcot is a toughy with kids. They just don't seem to like it, find it boring. The only thing they like there is the night fireworks. They do have the best show at night.

[lazyboy97O]

However, from a business perspective, a new park would draw more visitors than a new attraction.

Disney's Animal Kingdom pretty much proved that, unless there is a big cultural shift, a new park will just cause guests to cut short their time at other parks or skip the new park. The market is too saturated for another general admission park.

Yeah, I have to agree with you, Mouse. The idea of limiting the number of guests is possibly the most highly appealing idea for me (mostly because I find myself turning several different colors when being forced to deal with some of the masses at WDW).

It could be a good idea, but $300? Most people would rather spend that on tickets for two actual parks open all day with rides and attractions.

Most people I know with that kind of money would really rather take it where they would get more bang for their buck. Not that Night Kingdom wouldn't have bang, just not the right kind.

I find myself getting a bit irritated by the fact that they have 4 other parks in desperate need of some TLC, and yet they are gonna slap up another huge project, of which the prospects don't look very bright. *sigh*

Discovery Cove has been very much a success. This is the park you need to think of when thinking of the "5th gate". Even during an economic slow down, such a park's demographic are not as likely to be as affected.

[MJMcB]

AK is still a half day park!

Its only a half day park if you don't like zoos. You can spend considerable time visiting the animal exhibits, Rafiki's planet watch, around the Tree of Life. Plus, the shows like FOTLK and Flights of Wonder. Its a whole day easy.

[MJMcB]

Epcot is a toughy with kids.

Actually, I think Epcot has really opened up for kids. Characters are now everywhere especially in WS. Turtle Talk, Nemo, Imaginations are great. Soarin' is a good thrill for little ones if they can clear the 40 inch requirement. I find DHS to be much more difficult for young kids.

[Jerren]

Mr. Hill may have been the first person to bring a version of the full story to us but there is other evidence pointing to the boutique park.

- Rivers of Light was put down (could be re-imagineered for another location) as to not have AK compete with a night park.

- 4 Seasons being built catering to those with deep pockets (which was announced 2 years ago).

- Possibility of a multi-million dollar home community on current property

- Gradual phase out of PI clubs (Which we learned of 2 years ago).

I think the main thing to consider is all of the "boutique park" plans are probably contingent on the economy turning around...

If the economy tanks like some think it will most people would have to cut back on entertainment and expensive vacations which means Disney's Park offerings would get hit hard, very very hard. My fear is that Disney is using a model based on an assumption that the current attendance and profit numbers will continue to rise at the current rate or better, similar to how the investment banking firms did with the home mortgage market thinking home prices would continuously go up or Enron thinking they could continually drive up energy costs.. eventually it breaks and the whole pyramid of cards comes crashing down. What is not obvious by this move is what will Disney do if the model they are basing these projects on breaks.

Disney mothballed several projects and cut back staffing etc. when the travel slump happened after 9/11. If the Stock market tanks and the folks who have the extra couple mil for a Disney 4 seasons vacation home suddenly don't Disney will be in a bad position, far worse than if they where to focus on expanding their existing parks and possibly adding the second half of the Pop Century resort... or just adding new possibly more upscale nighttime entertainment at PI/West side.

Either way if the worse does happen, WDW will probably go back into post 9/11 cost savings mode again, deferred matencence, mothballing some of the resorts, cutting back staff/hours, etc. This is where the new direction gets them into trouble; you can't run a boutique offering with a Wall Mart mentality, not for long with out the target audience writing you off for good. Now if they make the decision to maintain the boutique in troubled economic times, this potentially would drain resources from the rest of the parks which impacts the majority, only I would have to guess the impact would be much more dramatic than that of the past. Either way the cutting back of the Disney magic (aka operational budgets) isn't going to attract people to part with scarce vacation budgets.

Its a huge risk and I for one think they have a big shiny pair for even considering it right now. Am I the only one?

[giggling_gargoyles]

Lol you aren't alone, Jerren. I do think, regardless of the sucess of Discovery Cove (how much is admission for that, btw?) they would be taking quite a risk, which is odd that they would rather dump a ton of money into something risky, rather than spend it on improving and making more upscale the parks they have, which are already popular and the investment would not be on a tightrope. Just a thought...

[Jerren]

Lol you aren't alone, Jerren. I do think, regardless of the sucess of Discovery Cove (how much is admission for that, btw?) they would be taking quite a risk, which is odd that they would rather dump a ton of money into something risky, rather than spend it on improving and making more upscale the parks they have, which are already popular and the investment would not be on a tightrope. Just a thought...

Discovery cove prices from the web: http://www.greatorlandodiscounts.com/discoverycove.htm

2008 Pricing for Discovery Cove
Dates / Dolphin Package / Non-Dolphin Package
Mar 16 - Nov 1 / $289 / $189
Nov 2 - Dec 20 / $269 / $169
Dec 21 - Dec 31 / $289 / $189


*Prices DO NOT include tax.


Looks like its an extra $100 to do the meet and greet with Flipper, about the same as you'd pay for a cruise excursion in the Bahamas on most cruise lines...

[giggling_gargoyles]

Well, you never know. Beastly Kingdom was all ready go be built, and it suddenly got scrapped, so maybe they'll scrap this too, after they do some serious number-crunching.

[WDW1974]

I doubt it.

BK didn't have a $350 per head cover charge ... this will likely happen.

[mark]

I hope this idea gets scrapped. I do not think it is strong enough- nor is it very competitive with Discovery Cove. At least not if the details we are hearing about are correct.

[MJMcB]

Well, you never know. Beastly Kingdom was all ready go be built, and it suddenly got scrapped, so maybe they'll scrap this too, after they do some serious number-crunching.

It wasn't really scrapped all of a sudden. It was stated for several years after DAK's opening that they were going to build it. For awhile, Camp Minnie Mickey was referred to as a "temporary" land.

[Phonedave]

Hey there Dave... well a starting CM makes around 7.50 - 8.00 an hour.

I will PM you other specifics.

I wasn't assuming starting wage. I was thinking average. If somone knows the WDW CM loaded labor rate, well then we would have an answer.

However I doubt anybody who knows such information is about to go posting it about in a public forum (unless they no longer want their job that is)

-dave

[Phonedave]

$10.00 per hour would be terrific. Most CM's make $7.50 per hour. A huge portion of Disney workers are on some kind of public assistance, which is a "shame on Disney." If you HAVE to work then Disney is not for you. If you work just for the sake of working and not the main bread winner for your family, then Disney is fine.

That's really insane. Heck, I don't fault Disney (my Capitalist heart won't let me). If that's what the market will bear, then well that's what it will bear.

I am just suprised that it bears that wage. I mean the cost in living in FL is not THAT much cheaper than where I am (and with insurance costs, it's going up).

As you said, at those rates, people must be working a lot of OT, or working for the sake of working, or putting in their time in the hopes of moving up.

-dave

[Phonedave]

Yeah, I have to agree with you, Mouse. The idea of limiting the number of guests is possibly the most highly appealing idea for me (mostly because I find myself turning several different colors when being forced to deal with some of the masses at WDW).

It could be a good idea, but $300? Most people would rather spend that on tickets for two actual parks open all day with rides and attractions.

Depends, if it's a exclusive experence with personal service, you may be suprised.

I have dropped $250 to smack a small white ball around on someone's lawn, get sweaty doing it, and then eat a steak and have a few drinks. And that took less than 8 hours. (and I needed special equipment to do so)


-dave