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  1. #46

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Yeah. DD used to be a great place to shop. Quiet, mellow and not simply Disney shops. But that really all started to change when WoD opened ... now, almost every shop is just more Mousecacrap. ... EPCOT and even DAK still have some nice places to pick things up.

  2. #47

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    I don't mind all the Disney stuff - it IS WDW after all. But, the Marketplace used to be as unique as the shops in the parks. If you wanted something Disney for your kitchen, you HAD to go to the kitchen shop. If you wanted Disney sports stuff, you went to the sports store. But, now almost every shop has the same stuff - much like in the parks. So, it's sorta pointless to have all those shops now because you see the same thing at each store. That's why I rarely "window shop" anymore. I tended to buy way more things on vacation a while ago because I was like, "ohhhh, this is awesome and I can't get it anywhere else, so I'll buy it now." I just expect to see it elsewhere when I see things I like now, so I leave it be. Then as time goes on, I decide I didn't really need it anyways. Less money for them.

    But, like you said, at least Epcot and DAK have some unique shops left.
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  3. #48

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    Cool Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeland View Post
    Personally, I don't see a problem with it. Just because it's on WDW property doesn't mean it has to be rated "G". I seriously doubt that kids will want to even pick up a Joan Collins book to read it.
    I bet they will now!

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    Disagree strongly. That's the image Disney has pushed out over the years, after all!

    As to alcohol, I have two answers (take your pick):

    1. During Walt's day, his parks *WERE* alcohol free. (two of them still are)
    2. Alcohol is not available to the kids. The book with the "bad word" is available to kids.
    1. In Walt's day there was only one park, period. Back then you generally couldn't buy alcohol in family entertainment venues, so no point made there.

    2. I would like to live in a pure and simple world, but, if you ever stood for 5 minutes in a school playground you would here words coming from 1st graders that would make a sailor blush. It's a different world and that book is the least likely avenue leading to the exposure of "bad words" to children.

    So, I agree in principle to what TDLFAN is saying, however, I think it is too late to worry about that particular book problem. It seems like a grain of salt in the ocean.

  4. #49

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Isn't one of the oldest criticisms of the Disney parks the incredibly sanitized view of the world?
    .
    I dont know if its a critisim per se, but more of an observation. Disney is Disney - smiles and happiness and ranbows and puppydogs and sugar candy. Well, OK , maybe not so much so, but it does have an image, and it is private property and can 'sanitize' to whatever extent it wishes, so I cannot fault them for that. However there is still part of me that wants to get up and yell "why are we so blasted overprotective and PC"

    -dave
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  5. #50

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    I didn't even know DHS had a book store. Where is it?

    If the book is very inappropriate, then I don't think it belongs at the park...but regardless, I doubt that a child would actually pick up the book, turn to that exact page, and read the offensive material mentioned. Although it could happen...

    Mind you...there are other places at WDW where children can find things much more objectionable and offensive. When we were at the Virgin Megastore @ DtD, I remember that my little brother found a big Playboy book on the second floor where the books are...and we just found him there, curiously flipping through the pages as if nothing...lol! It was pretty funny, actually...but if it happened to be a more conservative family that found their child looking at a Playboy book that they came across while they were at the Virgin Megastore in DtD...they might not be too happy, although I guess It's their fault for not supervising their kid and preventing that from happening?

    Or maybe they let their guard down, being at the ultra-sanitized/rated G place that Disney World is...not expecting for books like that to be found. Is it acceptable to sell Playboy books at the Virgin Megastore in DtD where kids can find it? I think so...It's not a Disney store and I don't think Disney can regulate the content sold at Virgin, but it is in Disney's very G-rated 'World'...hmm
    Last edited by WDWizard; 06-08-2008 at 08:40 AM.

  6. #51

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    I dont know if its a critisim per se, but more of an observation. Disney is Disney - smiles and happiness and ranbows and puppydogs and sugar candy. Well, OK , maybe not so much so, but it does have an image, and it is private property and can 'sanitize' to whatever extent it wishes, so I cannot fault them for that. However there is still part of me that wants to get up and yell "why are we so blasted overprotective and PC"

    -dave
    Considering all the real dangers children face today, the thought that ANY word read at ANY age in a book being harmful is truly laughable at best.

    And frankly, kids can witness all sorts of very bad behavior (mostly by adults) anywhere in public including WDW.

    Maybe my view as skiewed since I returned from Europe recently, and have been spending more time there with each passing year, but we really are repressed as a nation. I don't know if it's this deathgrip on the White House the religious right has but in Europe things like nudity and sex or alcohol just aren't considered bad or taboo or whatever.

    I've watched families with young children walk by sex shops in Amsterdam on Sunday mornings and the kids don't even look at the explicit content in the windows or if they do it's a glance and they walk right on by. And those people don't nearly have the problems with things like teen pregnancies etc ... that we do.

    But I've gone off on a tangent ... bottom line is I think this is a lot of talk about something insignificant and it won't matter because Disney will read this thread and pull that book.

  7. #52

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Hmm...I agree with you TDLF it is completely blasphemous of Disney to in any way, shape or form introduce children to disturbing ideas and themes.

    In fact, I think Tom's Sawyer's Island should be torn out of the Magic Kingdom due to it's connection to "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn"

    God forbid a child enjoy the attraction so much it inspires them to pick up the character's novel and find that Tom and Huck's world is one of extreme racism and the use of the "n" word.
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  8. #53

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    Considering all the real dangers children face today, the thought that ANY word read at ANY age in a book being harmful is truly laughable at best.

    And frankly, kids can witness all sorts of very bad behavior (mostly by adults) anywhere in public including WDW.

    Maybe my view as skiewed since I returned from Europe recently, and have been spending more time there with each passing year, but we really are repressed as a nation. I don't know if it's this deathgrip on the White House the religious right has but in Europe things like nudity and sex or alcohol just aren't considered bad or taboo or whatever.

    I've watched families with young children walk by sex shops in Amsterdam on Sunday mornings and the kids don't even look at the explicit content in the windows or if they do it's a glance and they walk right on by. And those people don't nearly have the problems with things like teen pregnancies etc ... that we do.

    But I've gone off on a tangent ... bottom line is I think this is a lot of talk about something insignificant and it won't matter because Disney will read this thread and pull that book.

    I really don't know where it stems from, but it goes a lot deeper than just nudity, sex, and alcohol. We coddle our kids (and for that matter, the general public) to amazing extents. Everybody is either out to get what they can from anybody else or else they are looking to protect everybody from themselves. Heinlein's world in Starship Troopers is looking better and better (and no, if you have only seen the horrid movie, then you have no idea what the book is about)

    -dave
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  9. #54

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    I really don't know where it stems from, but it goes a lot deeper than just nudity, sex, and alcohol. We coddle our kids (and for that matter, the general public) to amazing extents. Everybody is either out to get what they can from anybody else or else they are looking to protect everybody from themselves. Heinlein's world in Starship Troopers is looking better and better (and no, if you have only seen the horrid movie, then you have no idea what the book is about)

    -dave
    I know nothing about Starship Troopers, Dave, but I couldn't agree with your post anymore if I penned it myself.

    Maybe I grew up in a different country (or just time, I guess) but it seems that Americans of the 21st century live to look for things to be insulted or offended by ... be it the gay dudes living next door or the woman who wears her skirt 'two inches too high' or the books their children are reading at school or what we all have a choice of watching or not on network and cable TV.

    What scares me is we've also become a nation of victims. Everyone's a victim of something or someone. The problem with this, other than the fact it is an obnoxious way to go through life, is that if everyone's a victim than no one is. So REAL victims get treated like crap.

    It's a vicious cycle. Kind of like abusing the 10 percent of people who really need ECVs to make up for the 90 percent who are just lazy and looking to get the 'benefits' (how sick is that?) that the ill or disabled get.

    I dunno ... maybe I'll go to sleep and wake up and this will all be a bad dream, but I somehow doubt it.

  10. #55

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Last December, I was on Splash Mountain late at night. There were two young boys (ages 10-12) sitting behind me. We were at the part before you enter the shed and you often get wet from the splash from the big drop. After getting wet, one of the boys behind me said "That was ******* gay, that was ******* gay" twice. I'm not one to find language a big deal by any measure, but I thought this was very inapproriate at a Disney park (or any family entertainement location for that matter). The point I'm making is that foul language (whether approriate or not) can come from anywhere. You shouldn't get out of shape about it in being in a book that kids likely wouldn't pick up anyway.
    Maybe the book should be placed on a high shelf and distanced somewhat from the kid friendly merchandise.

    Plus, one time on the Matterhorn, a girl kept yelling the word 'penis' several times during the ride.

    Real people are more than often a much more negative influence on kids than any book, movie, video game etc. could be.

  11. #56

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    Last December, I was on Splash Mountain late at night. There were two young boys (ages 10-12) sitting behind me. We were at the part before you enter the shed and you often get wet from the splash from the big drop. After getting wet, one of the boys behind me said "That was ******* gay, that was ******* gay" twice. I'm not one to find language a big deal by any measure, but I thought this was very inapproriate at a Disney park (or any family entertainement location for that matter). The point I'm making is that foul language (whether approriate or not) can come from anywhere. You shouldn't get out of shape about it in being in a book that kids likely wouldn't pick up anyway.
    Maybe the book should be placed on a high shelf and distanced somewhat from the kid friendly merchandise.

    Plus, one time on the Matterhorn, a girl kept yelling the word 'penis' several times during the ride.

    Real people are more than often a much more negative influence on kids than any book, movie, video game etc. could be.
    Great points all around.

    I regularly cringe by the language I hear from both adults and children of all ages.

    It never ceases to amaze me how boorish people can be.

    With language though (and I'll likely take a hit for this), the worst I've found is usually tween girls.

    I was at a local mall food court Saturday and there were four (the oldest wasn't even 14 likely) discussing the various boys at their school and the size of their (used the infamous 'c' word) and which ones they'd ... well ... let's just say I'm a fairly open person, but I was sickened by it all.

    This idea that Disney is immune from crap like this bothers me more than one book, hidden on a shelf at one of the least-visited shops at WDW's least-visited theme park.

    people have no idea how to act in public anymore ... anywhere ... anytime ...

  12. #57

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    I regularly cringe by the language I hear from both adults and children of all ages.
    Right, no argument there. Definitely no filters on most people these days.

    I do still see a slight distinction between what you just described, and Disney selling a book that has the language in it. The one circumstance Disney has no control over (nor should they... freedom of speech). The other circumstance is something Disney can and should control: what they sell.

    But yeah, by and large I agree this is a tiny little topic, insignificant compared to the other major things going on out there. But maybe, just maybe, this is indicative of the company failing to care about its brand in pursuit of the almighty dollar, and thus this is a tiny part of a much larger problem. A symptom of the disease, if you will.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    I know nothing about Starship Troopers, Dave, but I couldn't agree with your post anymore if I penned it myself.
    I'll poach a few quotes from Wikipedia from Starship Troopers. It was (and still is) a rather contriversial book, and Heinlein had no compunctions about his views of the world. Of course if somone just reads this book and then begins to spout quotes without thinking, then thats pretty much a full circle problem. When reading these, remember that Heinlein wrote this book in 1959 - He saw these trends even back in "the good old days"


    One can lead a child to knowledge, but one cannot make him think.


    "Value" has no meaning other than in relationship to living beings. The value of a thing is always relative to a particular person, is completely personal and different in quantity for each living human—"market value" is a fiction, merely a rough guess at the average of personal values, all of which must be quantitatively different or trade would be impossible. [...] This very personal relationship, "value", has two factors for a human being: first, what he can do with a thing, its use to him… and second, what he must do to get it, its cost to him. There is an old song which asserts that "the best things in life are free". Not true! Utterly false! This was the tragic fallacy which brought on the decadence and collapse of the democracies of the twentieth century; those noble experiments failed because the people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted… and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears.

    That old saw about "to understand all is to forgive all" is a lot of tripe. Some things, the more you understand the more you loathe them.

    Ah yes, [life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]... Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it."

    I told you that 'juvenile delinquent' is a contradiction in terms. 'Delinquent' means 'failing in duty.' But duty is an adult virtue—indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be a 'juvenile delinquent.' But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents—people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail."
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  14. #59

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    I know nothing about Starship Troopers, Dave, but I couldn't agree with your post anymore if I penned it myself.

    Maybe I grew up in a different country (or just time, I guess) but it seems that Americans of the 21st century live to look for things to be insulted or offended by ... be it the gay dudes living next door or the woman who wears her skirt 'two inches too high' or the books their children are reading at school or what we all have a choice of watching or not on network and cable TV.

    What scares me is we've also become a nation of victims. Everyone's a victim of something or someone. The problem with this, other than the fact it is an obnoxious way to go through life, is that if everyone's a victim than no one is. So REAL victims get treated like crap.

    It's a vicious cycle. Kind of like abusing the 10 percent of people who really need ECVs to make up for the 90 percent who are just lazy and looking to get the 'benefits' (how sick is that?) that the ill or disabled get.

    I dunno ... maybe I'll go to sleep and wake up and this will all be a bad dream, but I somehow doubt it.

    I agree with this 100%, my biggest beef with the world is the self entitled, pity me and my problems. I was taught common courtesy of others, that even if you don't agree with another person's opinion, you accept them for who they are and their opinion, even when it's different from your own.

    A lot of people have that, "out of MY way" mentality and it really saddens me because it really reflects negatively on them as a person.

    Regarding the main topic however, I have to say I have no problem with the book being on the shelf. Even if my 8yr old happened to pick it up (which I doubt) and happened to turn to the page with the foul language (which I think is even a smaller chance) she would probably say it's a book with dirty words in it and put it back. Why? Because I teach my daughter what is right and wrong, what is acceptable, what reality is and what is appropriate in what forum. Now that doesn't mean that I allow her to say mean and nasty things. It means that when she learns it from various places ( mainly school ) I teach her WHY it's wrong and how strong words and situations have an affect on other people. No one teaches their children anymore, everyone is quick to go, "Don't do that Suzy!" but if you never tell the kid why she shouldn't do it, she will never know and more than likely do it again.

  15. #60

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    Re: Why questionable merchandise at WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    Right, no argument there. Definitely no filters on most people these days.

    I do still see a slight distinction between what you just described, and Disney selling a book that has the language in it. The one circumstance Disney has no control over (nor should they... freedom of speech). The other circumstance is something Disney can and should control: what they sell.

    But yeah, by and large I agree this is a tiny little topic, insignificant compared to the other major things going on out there. But maybe, just maybe, this is indicative of the company failing to care about its brand in pursuit of the almighty dollar, and thus this is a tiny part of a much larger problem. A symptom of the disease, if you will.
    Honestly, knowing Disney and how it runs, this was likely simply the decision of a low level merchandising buyer (possibly not even knowing one thing about Jackie Collins except she's a best-selling author that appeals largely to women). The buyer likely included this book because it sells. Period.

    There was probably no thought given to the content because no thought is the policy at Disney in many ways.

    But again, while I personally wouldn't buy it, I just can't get all worked up over it. And as I've said, it'll disappear soon ... if only because it was brought up in this forum.

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