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  1. #46

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    ^I don't know about his comment but I experience the flood of people when we return to the FP entrance and there are 5-10 people blocking the entrance because they are trying to get into the attraction 20 minutes earlier than their return time. All the while arguing with the CM and not letting anyone else get through.

  2. #47

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Second... where is this flood of fastpass people keep eluding to that need to be processed quickly? At the greeter position fastpass people are only going to flow in as fast as you allocate time slots to allow. Plus, a delay there isn't hurting load at all.. because people queue up past the greeter. Past pass entrance is a trickle... not a flood.

    Thank you. I can't understand when people make the argument that if you have a scanner or a CM reading passes at the start of the FP queue it will increase wait times.

    When I get on a FP line, most of the time I wait, maybe 5 minutes, but I wait. What difference does it make if I wait 10 seconds at the entrance and 4:50 at the end, or if the CM takes a minute to look at my FP and then I wait 4:00 at the end.

    OK, so there could start to be a backup at the entrance to the FP queue. So, move the CM 20 or so feet into the queue and have them do their checking there.

    -dave
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  3. #48

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL View Post
    ^I don't know about his comment but I experience the flood of people when we return to the FP entrance and there are 5-10 people blocking the entrance because they are trying to get into the attraction 20 minutes earlier than their return time. All the while arguing with the CM and not letting anyone else get through.
    I takes two people to argue. If the CM simply explains that they have to come back within the window and then proceedes to step away and deal with the next guest, that works pretty well.

    However, from what I hear, the problem is a lack of support for CM's that do try to stand up to guests. There is a way to be forceful and plesant, as well as forcefull and a SOB. I have no problem with forceful and plesant CM's

    -dave
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    "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony

  4. #49

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    Thank you. I can't understand when people make the argument that if you have a scanner or a CM reading passes at the start of the FP queue it will increase wait times.
    The issue I have with any scanner up there is

    - it adds people+technology interaction... leaves huge holes for stupid human tricks
    - while the scan process can be moved to something as short as 1 second or so.. it doesn't account for stupid human tricks holding up the line
    - the issue of fouled media always has to be addressed
    - cost of additional equipment and services (power, etc)
    - you wouldn't want a single point of failure so you'd be primed usually to have more then one machine (cost and space)
    - because of reasons like above, it does not remove the need for a CM at the position

    With all of that said... what does the technology bring to the table as a benefit? Tighter enforcement against counterfiting? But that hasn't shown to be a real issue, so why bother.

    The key elements are all already in place - Disney simply just has to use them. The data, the people, the methodology. Disney just choses to not use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    When I get on a FP line, most of the time I wait, maybe 5 minutes, but I wait. What difference does it make if I wait 10 seconds at the entrance and 4:50 at the end, or if the CM takes a minute to look at my FP and then I wait 4:00 at the end.
    The issue is greater at DL because of the very poor implementation of FP into the queues on top of the already bad space issues leads to real problems if there is any backups near the entrance. Their FP entrances are very crowded physically: often near things like stroller parking, pinched between two other things, etc. FP is implemented very poorly at DL compared to WDW.
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  5. #50

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL View Post
    ^I don't know about his comment but I experience the flood of people when we return to the FP entrance and there are 5-10 people blocking the entrance because they are trying to get into the attraction 20 minutes earlier than their return time. All the while arguing with the CM and not letting anyone else get through.
    Here in lies one of the ultimate stupidities of what Disney does chose to enforce. CM's will turn someone away for something like less then 5 minutes... yet allows them to return at any time past the return time. Allowing them at the wrong time both negatively affects ride waits... so that's a wash. But denying them prior to return time actually causes more problems because typically FP people will simple congregate around the entrance and wait for their time.. causing crowds. Where as denying them post-window time would not cause people to wait around because their ticket is no longer valid and they would be forced to either get a new FP, get in line, or leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  6. #51

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    I takes two people to argue. If the CM simply explains that they have to come back within the window and then proceeds to step away and deal with the next guest, that works pretty well.

    However, from what I hear, the problem is a lack of support for CM's that do try to stand up to guests. There is a way to be forceful and pleasant, as well as forcefully and a SOB. I have no problem with forceful and pleasant CM's

    -dave
    Most CM's are forceful and pleasant, but once they tell them they have to wait the guests stand there and in my experiences the CM doesn't do anything about it. So it leaves other people 1 of 2 options, push their way in or try and encounter an already upset Guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Here in lies one of the ultimate stupidities of what Disney does chose to enforce. CM's will turn someone away for something like less then 5 minutes... yet allows them to return at any time past the return time. Allowing them at the wrong time both negatively affects ride waits... so that's a wash. But denying them prior to return time actually causes more problems because typically FP people will simple congregate around the entrance and wait for their time.. causing crowds. Where as denying them post-window time would not cause people to wait around because their ticket is no longer valid and they would be forced to either get a new FP, get in line, or leave.
    ^I agree with you, but also consider that a space in line opens up for the people waiting that would otherwise be taken by a person using the FP, who decides to return at a later time. But I do agree, the system is definitely flawed, someone is going to get screwed in the end, whether it's standby or even backing up the FP line. Which I've noticed is becoming more and more common btw.

  7. #52

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    I have never been to the other side (so to speak) although I am planning to do so next year but in the meantime, exactly how does Universal handle their FastPass (or whatever it's called over there) system?

  8. #53

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phonedave View Post
    Thank you. I can't understand when people make the argument that if you have a scanner or a CM reading passes at the start of the FP queue it will increase wait times.


    -dave
    Totally agree. A barcode takes a nano second to read. The guest merely waves the FP in front of the reader just as a supermarket teller waves a can of beans in front of their reader. If the time slot is OK you get admitted. If the time slot isn't Ok then a CM intervenes. Simple. Maybe if they controlled numbers entering parks more effectively and made more high capacity rides it would help ease the problem. Just a thought.
    Now I'll turn that little mouse's dream into a nightmare Fantasmic !



  9. #54

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Again.. where is this flood?

    If you are giving out a FIXED number of tickets per time window... you are controlling how many people will return to the gate +/- people who are not in their return window.
    It's been my experience, especially when arriving just before my window opens, that a lot of other people are arriving at the same time. So as soon as the clock ticks over you have that "flood" of people storming the gate. Take a look next time at the FP CM as he grabs your ticket, glances at the start time on your ticket, and waves you on through. Now picture him having to look at 3 different elements and keep track in his head this moving window. Perhaps I'm overstating the difficulty, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing I'd want to have to do all day long.

  10. #55

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by geoffa View Post
    Totally agree. A barcode takes a nano second to read. The guest merely waves the FP in front of the reader just as a supermarket teller waves a can of beans in front of their reader. If the time slot is OK you get admitted. If the time slot isn't Ok then a CM intervenes.
    As a former cashier at a grocery store (I just want to bring that up since you used that comparison ) I can tell you that it doesn't always scan on the first try. Plus, it takes some common sense to ensure the best scanning accuracy.

    To enforce the idea of stupid human tricks and how they can take even the simplest concept and break it.. look at the FastPass machines themselves. Stupid Human Tricks cause FP areas to even have their own queues!! And there needs to be a CM present to help guests.

    I think the best analogy to this suggestion is looking at EXACTLY where its been implemented this exact way. The airport checkin gate. Many airlines have gone to barcode boarding passes. While they work reasonably well, they still require an agent to do all the scanning and they still have problems occasionally with people's media. The agent does the actual scanning to minimize the stupid human tricks from affecting the actual scan process but even they can have problems. The gates still backup whenever an exception happens. It's an exaggeration here because they truely do have a flood of people at once... but its a perfect illustration of the suggested model in practice. Scanning is fast, but not all the time, and not always successful. The process still requires an employee to go smoothly.

    The airports need the barcodes to prevent forgery - Disney doesn't at this point. They just need to use the eyes of the CM they already have there. Disney gains little to implementing a technology here for something that is easily done with low-end labor.

    To take it back to the grocery analogy... ever see the scanning efficiency of the people using the self-check lines vs the clerk? Scanning rate is also a metric used by the stores to evaluate clerks...

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    So as soon as the clock ticks over you have that "flood" of people storming the gate.
    But that's a result of your distribution model. Disney controls this.. they can adapt it if needed. Part of the problem seems to be Disney is giving out way too many passes.

    With comments from the prophet in his 6/17 article making claims inferring 70% of people would be using the FP line at TSMM... if they are giving out that many passes and NOT enforcing return times no wonder things are screwed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    Take a look next time at the FP CM as he grabs your ticket, glances at the start time on your ticket, and waves you on through. Now picture him having to look at 3 different elements and keep track in his head this moving window. Perhaps I'm overstating the difficulty, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing I'd want to have to do all day long.
    Lets see... date? Doesn't change all day
    Start Time? He's already looking at this
    Return Time? All he needs to know is what the current time is.. which he already knows and has to check. It's the same exact thought process as they check for start times. No math required.

    If you add a grace period.. they need to figure out how to add +1 or +2. If adding single digit numbers is too complicated for them... I don't want these people operating the attractions I'm riding.

    A grouper's job is 10x harder, and under way more pressure and is non-stop. We don't see us debating why the grouper's role is impossible to do.
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  11. #56

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    As a former cashier at a grocery store (I just want to bring that up since you used that comparison ) I can tell you that it doesn't always scan on the first try. Plus, it takes some common sense to ensure the best scanning accuracy.

    To enforce the idea of stupid human tricks and how they can take even the simplest concept and break it.. look at the FastPass machines themselves. Stupid Human Tricks cause FP areas to even have their own queues!! And there needs to be a CM present to help guests.
    I was advocating a CM with a hand held wireless scanner, just like they use for your KTTW when checking for EMH. If something does break down, they just shift into manual mode. This would also allow for a more dynamic load balancing algorithim. Right now FP return times are based on the number of FP's given out. If they scanned incomming FP's as well, they could use that data to see if FP holding guests are frontloading their return times, or if its a even distribution.

    I too worked at a grocery store when in High School and college, but by the time we had scanners I had graduated from cashier to deli / produce / meat cutting. 19 items a minute, with manual cash registers - and accurate too

    To take it back to the grocery analogy... ever see the scanning efficiency of the people using the self-check lines vs the clerk? Scanning rate is also a metric used by the stores to evaluate clerks...
    Yeah, I am much faster And I bag better too, but thats a different topic. Why oh why does a half gallon of milk need it's own double bagged bag? What am I going to do with it, sling it on my saddle horn and gallop home with it ?

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  12. #57

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Magic View Post
    The article does mention that Disney has started adding barcodes to tickets and readers to some attractions. I was unaware of this being done, does anyone know which attractions are testing with that technology?
    The barcodes have been added to reflect the various tickets and upcoming ticket change overs to include magnetic strip and barcodes.

    Not only are individuals selling FPs, Readmits, Ride-switch, etc. but they are also making copies and using/selling those. CMs are instructed to look for the fakes, which is sad that it's come to this. It's supposed to be a free service that enchances your visit to the parks and it's only gotten worse over time. FPs for Soarin and TSMM run out quickly which upsets some guests and causes many to not even experience the attractoin. I don't blame them either -- I waitied for TSMM before FP was operating and I can't even imagine the rate the line would move at with it. Rider switches have become increasingly strict and more time specific because of these things too. In late May Soarin' switched to same-day Ride Swaps instead of ones with two-weeks intervals and they've seen a drop in guests using them. I know Everest has been doing a similar thing for a while now as well.

  13. #58

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    The easiest thing for CMs to do is to first look at the date. (The giveaway.) Then they can scan the barcode.

  14. #59

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    If you guys have any dream fastpasses, you could end up with this kinda cash.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008

  15. #60

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    Re: Disney Fighting 'FastPass' Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyPrincess4590 View Post
    Wow, look at these prices! This is absolutely insane. Who would pay hundreds of dollars for FPs after already paying so much for park admission?!

    http://shop.ebay.com/items/__fast-pa...uscZfastpasses
    I've never seen VIP or attraction Re-Entry passes at the parks before. how exactly do people obtain these kind of passes as opposed to the regular FPs with the colorful logo bar of the attraction plainly on them? What is the difference?



    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL View Post
    ^I don't know about his comment but I experience the flood of people when we return to the FP entrance and there are 5-10 people blocking the entrance because they are trying to get into the attraction 20 minutes earlier than their return time. All the while arguing with the CM and not letting anyone else get through.
    I couldve sworn that I went to the FP lines of one or two attractions and they let me in even if I was a few minutes early than the return start time on my FP. Perhaps they were just lazy CPs or they didnt mind because there were no lines of people getting in. I dunno.

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